1
00:00:03,230 --> 00:00:01,429
hey everyone hope you're having a great

2
00:00:04,309 --> 00:00:03,240
day today it's going to be a cool show

3
00:00:05,749 --> 00:00:04,319
we are doing something a little

4
00:00:08,690 --> 00:00:05,759
different we have for the first time

5
00:00:10,430 --> 00:00:08,700
ever a husband and wife team and not

6
00:00:13,970 --> 00:00:10,440
just any husband and wife we have the

7
00:00:16,070 --> 00:00:13,980
blumenthals oh yeah and Mr and Mrs Ralph

8
00:00:17,269 --> 00:00:16,080
and Deborah Blumenthal and uh they're

9
00:00:18,769 --> 00:00:17,279
gonna chat about their new book that

10
00:00:20,929 --> 00:00:18,779
they've written and uh Jay I don't know

11
00:00:23,630 --> 00:00:20,939
about you this is kind of a new thing as

12
00:00:25,910 --> 00:00:23,640
far as uh picture books go it's you know

13
00:00:28,070 --> 00:00:25,920
it's Unique it's Moody it's got a

14
00:00:29,750 --> 00:00:28,080
certain tone the angles of of the

15
00:00:31,189 --> 00:00:29,760
paintings the way that it's angled with

16
00:00:33,830 --> 00:00:31,199
the words and what they talk about is

17
00:00:35,690 --> 00:00:33,840
beautifully done it's uh it's Unique

18
00:00:37,670 --> 00:00:35,700
yeah we haven't covered a a kid's book

19
00:00:39,830 --> 00:00:37,680
but when you got the blumenthals working

20
00:00:41,930 --> 00:00:39,840
on a book like this you gotta cover it

21
00:00:43,850 --> 00:00:41,940
you gotta see what uh what it's all

22
00:00:45,530 --> 00:00:43,860
about right yeah and this is a first

23
00:00:47,330 --> 00:00:45,540
where this isn't like like science

24
00:00:49,790 --> 00:00:47,340
fiction these are based on facts

25
00:00:51,830 --> 00:00:49,800
presented in a very mild and

26
00:00:53,990 --> 00:00:51,840
non-assuming way just to encourage

27
00:00:56,450 --> 00:00:54,000
dialogue between maybe parents and their

28
00:00:58,970 --> 00:00:56,460
kids not only about UAP but the moon

29
00:01:01,010 --> 00:00:58,980
planets you know uh I think there was

30
00:01:02,810 --> 00:01:01,020
mention of um I School sighting that

31
00:01:05,810 --> 00:01:02,820
happened in Rua Zimbabwe kind of in

32
00:01:07,250 --> 00:01:05,820
reference to the aerial school so it's

33
00:01:10,370 --> 00:01:07,260
very cool that they're going there and

34
00:01:12,109 --> 00:01:10,380
also well it is a UAP studies podcast so

35
00:01:14,450 --> 00:01:12,119
we would be remiss if we didn't ask

36
00:01:16,550 --> 00:01:14,460
Ralph Blumenthal his thoughts on recent

37
00:01:18,289 --> 00:01:16,560
things like The Arrow hearings and where

38
00:01:19,670 --> 00:01:18,299
he sees things going down the road and

39
00:01:22,249 --> 00:01:19,680
I'm going to see if maybe he'll give us

40
00:01:24,469 --> 00:01:22,259
a little snippet Insider info maybe not

41
00:01:26,090 --> 00:01:24,479
but let's see we're gonna ask anyway so

42
00:01:27,350 --> 00:01:26,100
I'm excited Jay it's uh it's gonna be

43
00:01:29,090 --> 00:01:27,360
cool I'm looking forward to meeting his

44
00:01:30,830 --> 00:01:29,100
wife yeah me too it's first time we'll

45
00:01:32,929 --> 00:01:30,840
meet Debra so I'm looking forward to it

46
00:01:34,850 --> 00:01:32,939
yeah well let's run our music we'll get

47
00:01:37,310 --> 00:01:34,860
him on here and uh let's have a let's

48
00:01:39,649 --> 00:01:37,320
have a cool relaxing day in our virtual

49
00:01:44,030 --> 00:01:39,659
living room with the blumenthals right

50
00:01:56,990 --> 00:01:46,590
thank you

51
00:02:05,050 --> 00:01:57,000
[Music]

52
00:02:09,229 --> 00:02:07,310
welcome back to another episode of UAP

53
00:02:10,969 --> 00:02:09,239
studies podcast my name is Louis Borges

54
00:02:12,830 --> 00:02:10,979
joining me as always my good friend and

55
00:02:15,290 --> 00:02:12,840
illustrious co-host Mr Jason Gilman

56
00:02:16,910 --> 00:02:15,300
how's it going it's going good this is a

57
00:02:18,949 --> 00:02:16,920
cool day we've uh we've never had a

58
00:02:20,869 --> 00:02:18,959
husband and wife pair on the show this

59
00:02:22,970 --> 00:02:20,879
is a first yeah it is a first for us

60
00:02:24,710 --> 00:02:22,980
yeah and uh so today we've got Ralph and

61
00:02:26,750 --> 00:02:24,720
Deborah Blumenthal a couple months ago

62
00:02:28,309 --> 00:02:26,760
we did a deep dive with Ralph talked

63
00:02:30,770 --> 00:02:28,319
about his career and uh you know the

64
00:02:32,809 --> 00:02:30,780
groundbreaking article in 2017 that he

65
00:02:35,510 --> 00:02:32,819
came up with uh but we have his wife

66
00:02:37,369 --> 00:02:35,520
Deborah with us today and uh she is an

67
00:02:39,050 --> 00:02:37,379
award-winning journalist some of the

68
00:02:42,470 --> 00:02:39,060
topics she writes on include health and

69
00:02:45,110 --> 00:02:42,480
nutrition Fitness Beauty travel interior

70
00:02:47,570 --> 00:02:45,120
design all the stuff my wife loves uh

71
00:02:50,330 --> 00:02:47,580
this lady is busy she's written 16 books

72
00:02:52,729 --> 00:02:50,340
uh both for adults and for children and

73
00:02:54,949 --> 00:02:52,739
she also spent four years at the Times

74
00:02:57,650 --> 00:02:54,959
Sunday Times magazine as a beauty

75
00:02:59,509 --> 00:02:57,660
columnist so big welcome to the show Mr

76
00:03:01,850 --> 00:02:59,519
and Mrs Ralph and Deborah Blumenthal

77
00:03:03,410 --> 00:03:01,860
thanks guys thank you yeah thanks for

78
00:03:05,030 --> 00:03:03,420
being with us so we'll start with you

79
00:03:07,610 --> 00:03:05,040
Deborah you know we want to introduce

80
00:03:09,350 --> 00:03:07,620
issued our audience and uh if anybody's

81
00:03:11,390 --> 00:03:09,360
unfamiliar with you maybe tell us a

82
00:03:13,490 --> 00:03:11,400
little bit about yourself and your

83
00:03:14,809 --> 00:03:13,500
writing career and working for the times

84
00:03:17,390 --> 00:03:14,819
okay

85
00:03:20,030 --> 00:03:17,400
um well actually my career in terms of

86
00:03:23,649 --> 00:03:20,040
writing children's books began with a

87
00:03:26,509 --> 00:03:23,659
terrible tantrum that my daughter had

88
00:03:29,690 --> 00:03:26,519
we were just to briefly tell you what

89
00:03:33,290 --> 00:03:29,700
happened we were at a play date and she

90
00:03:35,509 --> 00:03:33,300
was exhausted and hungry and had the

91
00:03:39,229 --> 00:03:35,519
world's worst tantrum so I took her home

92
00:03:41,690 --> 00:03:39,239
under my arm on a winter day and put her

93
00:03:44,030 --> 00:03:41,700
in her crib and called my pediatrician I

94
00:03:46,070 --> 00:03:44,040
said you know where's the manual how do

95
00:03:49,009 --> 00:03:46,080
I deal with this and he said oh it's

96
00:03:51,170 --> 00:03:49,019
just normal it's a tantrum so while she

97
00:03:53,030 --> 00:03:51,180
was napping I sat down and wrote my

98
00:03:56,030 --> 00:03:53,040
first children's book called the

99
00:03:59,270 --> 00:03:56,040
chocolate covered cookie tantrum so that

100
00:04:02,990 --> 00:03:59,280
was in 1995 and that really started my

101
00:04:04,789 --> 00:04:03,000
career in children's book writing and in

102
00:04:08,330 --> 00:04:04,799
terms of Journalism you know being

103
00:04:11,990 --> 00:04:08,340
married to a journalist was how that all

104
00:04:13,910 --> 00:04:12,000
began and we actually collaborated many

105
00:04:15,649 --> 00:04:13,920
years ago

106
00:04:17,810 --> 00:04:15,659
um because I was eating mostly

107
00:04:21,710 --> 00:04:17,820
vegetarian and Ralph was eating a lot of

108
00:04:23,570 --> 00:04:21,720
meat and we for a week we experimented

109
00:04:25,909 --> 00:04:23,580
to see if I could convert him to

110
00:04:28,909 --> 00:04:25,919
vegetarianism so that was our first

111
00:04:31,670 --> 00:04:28,919
project together and it was pretty it

112
00:04:34,129 --> 00:04:31,680
was pretty successful yeah

113
00:04:36,170 --> 00:04:34,139
um and we didn't work together again and

114
00:04:38,810 --> 00:04:36,180
actually I think we did one Family

115
00:04:40,909 --> 00:04:38,820
Circle article it's a travel article but

116
00:04:43,550 --> 00:04:40,919
other than that the UFO book was our

117
00:04:46,070 --> 00:04:43,560
first uh children's book collaboration

118
00:04:48,350 --> 00:04:46,080
certainly and I you know I've written a

119
00:04:51,230 --> 00:04:48,360
lot of picture book biographies a

120
00:04:55,430 --> 00:04:51,240
biography of Frank Erie

121
00:04:58,249 --> 00:04:55,440
um fashion icon Diana Vreeland uh Ann

122
00:05:00,950 --> 00:04:58,259
collo who was the first black Couture

123
00:05:03,830 --> 00:05:00,960
designer who designed Jackie Kennedy's

124
00:05:05,810 --> 00:05:03,840
wedding gown and so I've been having fun

125
00:05:08,270 --> 00:05:05,820
with picture book biographies as well

126
00:05:10,790 --> 00:05:08,280
and Bill Cunningham the former times

127
00:05:12,890 --> 00:05:10,800
Fashion photographer

128
00:05:15,409 --> 00:05:12,900
um so you know that's where I am I sort

129
00:05:16,790 --> 00:05:15,419
of Jump Around picture books young adult

130
00:05:18,950 --> 00:05:16,800
novels

131
00:05:21,770 --> 00:05:18,960
um I don't do too much newspaper writing

132
00:05:25,430 --> 00:05:21,780
anymore because it's just more fun to do

133
00:05:28,490 --> 00:05:25,440
the picture books right and uh so out of

134
00:05:31,249 --> 00:05:28,500
curiosity how did you two meet

135
00:05:33,710 --> 00:05:31,259
oh we made it a party

136
00:05:36,770 --> 00:05:33,720
um a friend of mine was invited to the

137
00:05:40,850 --> 00:05:36,780
party she said bring eligible men so she

138
00:05:43,370 --> 00:05:40,860
brought me and I mean

139
00:05:46,070 --> 00:05:43,380
a Christmas party in New York

140
00:05:47,990 --> 00:05:46,080
um and the rest is history right nice

141
00:05:50,150 --> 00:05:48,000
it's like one of those romantic movies

142
00:05:52,070 --> 00:05:50,160
that you see from the 1980s or something

143
00:05:54,290 --> 00:05:52,080
right though yeah

144
00:05:58,810 --> 00:05:54,300
how long you guys been married

145
00:06:01,210 --> 00:05:58,820
ah oh boy uh tomorrow will be 46 years

146
00:06:06,610 --> 00:06:01,220
wow

147
00:06:10,550 --> 00:06:09,110
yeah yeah a couple some red books

148
00:06:12,409 --> 00:06:10,560
together stay together I guess right

149
00:06:13,909 --> 00:06:12,419
right the ultimate test of the

150
00:06:15,230 --> 00:06:13,919
relationship eh we've been together this

151
00:06:17,749 --> 00:06:15,240
many years let's see if we can work

152
00:06:19,850 --> 00:06:17,759
together intensively but we know each

153
00:06:21,590 --> 00:06:19,860
other's work habits and we have great

154
00:06:23,629 --> 00:06:21,600
respect for each other's abilities I

155
00:06:25,249 --> 00:06:23,639
mean uh Deborah's certainly an expert in

156
00:06:27,770 --> 00:06:25,259
children's book writing she saw me

157
00:06:29,150 --> 00:06:27,780
working on the UFO stuff so she thought

158
00:06:32,749 --> 00:06:29,160
that would make a good children's book

159
00:06:34,249 --> 00:06:32,759
so we can get into that but uh we um you

160
00:06:35,870 --> 00:06:34,259
know we watched each other work and

161
00:06:37,730 --> 00:06:35,880
criticized each other's writing

162
00:06:40,969 --> 00:06:37,740
critiqued it you know

163
00:06:43,969 --> 00:06:40,979
you know done very different things but

164
00:06:46,309 --> 00:06:43,979
we do read each other's projects

165
00:06:48,830 --> 00:06:46,319
um you know I read numerous versions of

166
00:06:51,409 --> 00:06:48,840
the believer as it was evolving and and

167
00:06:53,090 --> 00:06:51,419
Ralph always looks at my books before I

168
00:06:55,850 --> 00:06:53,100
send them out so it you know it's

169
00:06:58,189 --> 00:06:55,860
obviously great to have another set of

170
00:07:00,710 --> 00:06:58,199
trained eyes review something before you

171
00:07:02,029 --> 00:07:00,720
hand it in yeah and especially being I

172
00:07:04,010 --> 00:07:02,039
was thinking about that earlier how cool

173
00:07:06,110 --> 00:07:04,020
would it be as an author to have

174
00:07:09,170 --> 00:07:06,120
somebody you trust who can be blunt with

175
00:07:11,090 --> 00:07:09,180
you but still kind and and help you

176
00:07:12,950 --> 00:07:11,100
along rather than just an editor or

177
00:07:15,830 --> 00:07:12,960
somebody working for the the publication

178
00:07:20,110 --> 00:07:15,840
company and that's a very cool Dynamic

179
00:07:22,490 --> 00:07:20,120
so the book is called UFOs UFO HS

180
00:07:24,110 --> 00:07:22,500
mysteries in the sky and this the first

181
00:07:25,969 --> 00:07:24,120
of its kind I believe the first book

182
00:07:28,670 --> 00:07:25,979
ever to explore the UAP phenomenon

183
00:07:30,469 --> 00:07:28,680
written specifically for kids uh it

184
00:07:33,890 --> 00:07:30,479
describes real phenomenon and accounts

185
00:07:36,409 --> 00:07:33,900
from pilots and ship captains scientists

186
00:07:38,749 --> 00:07:36,419
and Ordinary People and it prompts the

187
00:07:40,430 --> 00:07:38,759
discussion but between parents and kids

188
00:07:42,589 --> 00:07:40,440
about you know things like the moon and

189
00:07:44,689 --> 00:07:42,599
the planets and not all things in the

190
00:07:45,830 --> 00:07:44,699
sky are planes so I'll throw it to you

191
00:07:48,290 --> 00:07:45,840
guys tell us a little bit about your

192
00:07:51,230 --> 00:07:48,300
book and uh you know why did you decide

193
00:07:54,110 --> 00:07:51,240
to write this specific book as a project

194
00:07:56,150 --> 00:07:54,120
um well the the main point actually is

195
00:07:58,490 --> 00:07:56,160
that it's non-fiction I mean there are

196
00:08:01,370 --> 00:07:58,500
other children's books picture books

197
00:08:03,469 --> 00:08:01,380
that you know Veer into fantasy and

198
00:08:06,170 --> 00:08:03,479
speculation or so and we try to keep

199
00:08:07,249 --> 00:08:06,180
this strictly factual which is why we

200
00:08:09,409 --> 00:08:07,259
think

201
00:08:12,050 --> 00:08:09,419
um it's so groundbreaking so it's really

202
00:08:14,450 --> 00:08:12,060
the first as far as we know the first uh

203
00:08:17,390 --> 00:08:14,460
children's picture book that's strictly

204
00:08:19,850 --> 00:08:17,400
non-fiction and just deals in known

205
00:08:23,029 --> 00:08:19,860
facts and in a field as you know that is

206
00:08:25,249 --> 00:08:23,039
Rife with uh speculation and fantasy and

207
00:08:27,770 --> 00:08:25,259
you know all kinds of uh you know weird

208
00:08:30,170 --> 00:08:27,780
things but so we we try to keep it

209
00:08:32,449 --> 00:08:30,180
really firmly grounded and it you know

210
00:08:34,610 --> 00:08:32,459
it's a book that has more questions and

211
00:08:36,949 --> 00:08:34,620
answers because obviously that's what

212
00:08:39,709 --> 00:08:36,959
this field is all about but we hope

213
00:08:42,469 --> 00:08:39,719
it'll provoke discussion between parents

214
00:08:45,590 --> 00:08:42,479
and children lay out you know the things

215
00:08:47,269 --> 00:08:45,600
that we do know and then bring up the

216
00:08:49,730 --> 00:08:47,279
discussion of you know the Mysteries

217
00:08:51,829 --> 00:08:49,740
what we don't know and hopefully kids

218
00:08:54,170 --> 00:08:51,839
will begin to think what could be up

219
00:08:56,090 --> 00:08:54,180
there what could be out there and just

220
00:08:59,269 --> 00:08:56,100
you know get them fascinated with the

221
00:09:01,310 --> 00:08:59,279
field as we all are yeah and and from an

222
00:09:04,910 --> 00:09:01,320
early age saying that it's okay to see

223
00:09:06,949 --> 00:09:04,920
these things I mean I I live in you know

224
00:09:08,990 --> 00:09:06,959
I'm a kid from the 80s and the 90s and I

225
00:09:11,150 --> 00:09:09,000
remember you didn't talk about any of

226
00:09:14,090 --> 00:09:11,160
that stuff in the 80s and 90s like that

227
00:09:15,829 --> 00:09:14,100
was taboo and off the table and if you

228
00:09:17,990 --> 00:09:15,839
even brought the subject with the wrong

229
00:09:19,910 --> 00:09:18,000
person you can have the wrong

230
00:09:22,009 --> 00:09:19,920
you know that person may have a wrong

231
00:09:23,750 --> 00:09:22,019
image of you as a whole but now we're

232
00:09:25,910 --> 00:09:23,760
getting to a point where we're like no

233
00:09:27,530 --> 00:09:25,920
let's talk about it because we all grew

234
00:09:30,590 --> 00:09:27,540
up during those times and we still had

235
00:09:32,150 --> 00:09:30,600
experiences and we've all seen things uh

236
00:09:34,070 --> 00:09:32,160
it's still happening whether or not we

237
00:09:36,710 --> 00:09:34,080
address this issue so it's great to see

238
00:09:38,090 --> 00:09:36,720
to say to to the kids now no it's okay

239
00:09:41,150 --> 00:09:38,100
to see it like if you see something

240
00:09:43,670 --> 00:09:41,160
that's not normal talk about it it's

241
00:09:45,590 --> 00:09:43,680
okay to talk about it yeah I mean we

242
00:09:47,570 --> 00:09:45,600
really wanted to remove the stigma which

243
00:09:49,009 --> 00:09:47,580
as you point out has been a problem all

244
00:09:52,130 --> 00:09:49,019
along and it was really part of the

245
00:09:53,810 --> 00:09:52,140
government's official policy to uh cast

246
00:09:56,630 --> 00:09:53,820
out on the phenomenon because the

247
00:09:59,030 --> 00:09:56,640
government itself uh was was so puzzled

248
00:10:01,009 --> 00:09:59,040
and fearful of what this really was they

249
00:10:03,769 --> 00:10:01,019
knew a lot more than they let on all

250
00:10:07,550 --> 00:10:03,779
along but um so they took the position

251
00:10:10,550 --> 00:10:07,560
years ago uh to to cast out on it to

252
00:10:12,590 --> 00:10:10,560
stigmatize people who came forward to

253
00:10:14,690 --> 00:10:12,600
question their sanity

254
00:10:16,630 --> 00:10:14,700
um so we we have come a long way we can

255
00:10:19,850 --> 00:10:16,640
talk about that I mean

256
00:10:21,970 --> 00:10:19,860
it's been a lot of progress not it's not

257
00:10:26,150 --> 00:10:21,980
you know completely

258
00:10:28,370 --> 00:10:26,160
resolved yet but you know it's it as you

259
00:10:30,470 --> 00:10:28,380
say it's now possible to talk about it

260
00:10:33,050 --> 00:10:30,480
and I think it's good sorry go ahead

261
00:10:35,329 --> 00:10:33,060
Debra no I was mentioning that also now

262
00:10:36,829 --> 00:10:35,339
children's books are more sophisticated

263
00:10:38,630 --> 00:10:36,839
than they have before

264
00:10:41,930 --> 00:10:38,640
and so they you know they're dealing

265
00:10:44,150 --> 00:10:41,940
with topics that 10 of 20 30 years ago

266
00:10:46,910 --> 00:10:44,160
you never would have dealt with without

267
00:10:49,670 --> 00:10:46,920
you know putting it into the uh fiction

268
00:10:52,130 --> 00:10:49,680
category certainly so I you know

269
00:10:54,949 --> 00:10:52,140
children are sophisticated parents are

270
00:10:57,769 --> 00:10:54,959
wanting to expose their children to

271
00:10:59,930 --> 00:10:57,779
different sensitive subjects to bring

272
00:11:02,930 --> 00:10:59,940
them into the discussion you know and to

273
00:11:06,769 --> 00:11:02,940
remove the Fear Factor and the mystery

274
00:11:09,350 --> 00:11:06,779
and and just to be open and uh honest

275
00:11:11,690 --> 00:11:09,360
with with their kids in terms of the

276
00:11:13,670 --> 00:11:11,700
world around them yeah and it may

277
00:11:15,590 --> 00:11:13,680
prevent future trauma we talk to a lot

278
00:11:17,329 --> 00:11:15,600
of people and the biggest baggage

279
00:11:19,250 --> 00:11:17,339
they're carrying is how they were

280
00:11:21,829 --> 00:11:19,260
treated when they told people they loved

281
00:11:24,170 --> 00:11:21,839
and trusted that I saw something so if

282
00:11:26,030 --> 00:11:24,180
anything yes remove the stigma but it's

283
00:11:28,430 --> 00:11:26,040
not bad to let kids know to have an open

284
00:11:30,350 --> 00:11:28,440
mind and that if you know they ever do

285
00:11:32,150 --> 00:11:30,360
have an encounter and the numbers say

286
00:11:34,610 --> 00:11:32,160
that a big portion of them will at some

287
00:11:36,350 --> 00:11:34,620
point that you know it's okay and and

288
00:11:37,790 --> 00:11:36,360
maybe they won't have those effects that

289
00:11:40,250 --> 00:11:37,800
a lot of people people are describing

290
00:11:41,930 --> 00:11:40,260
now having lived through the taboo era

291
00:11:43,790 --> 00:11:41,940
maybe we can put an end to that with

292
00:11:46,970 --> 00:11:43,800
Early Education so good on you for that

293
00:11:50,090 --> 00:11:46,980
yeah and you know seeing a lot of stuff

294
00:11:52,550 --> 00:11:50,100
on TV or all the time and cartoons and

295
00:11:54,350 --> 00:11:52,560
hearing it from their schoolmates and

296
00:11:56,389 --> 00:11:54,360
picking picking up you know bits and

297
00:11:58,190 --> 00:11:56,399
pieces of this so we thought it's

298
00:12:00,410 --> 00:11:58,200
important to give them

299
00:12:02,569 --> 00:12:00,420
um you know some grounding and give

300
00:12:05,329 --> 00:12:02,579
parents a basis for talking to their

301
00:12:07,430 --> 00:12:05,339
kids about it yeah there's also another

302
00:12:09,290 --> 00:12:07,440
aspect that I I was thinking about the

303
00:12:12,650 --> 00:12:09,300
book is it's not just introducing the

304
00:12:14,630 --> 00:12:12,660
subject to maybe parents and children or

305
00:12:16,610 --> 00:12:14,640
a parent that believes in the subject or

306
00:12:18,710 --> 00:12:16,620
has had an experience someone wants to

307
00:12:20,990 --> 00:12:18,720
start educating their children about it

308
00:12:22,910 --> 00:12:21,000
but also for experiencers as well

309
00:12:25,009 --> 00:12:22,920
because we've spoken to quite a bit of

310
00:12:26,449 --> 00:12:25,019
people now Louis that have had

311
00:12:28,310 --> 00:12:26,459
occurrences not only in their life

312
00:12:30,769 --> 00:12:28,320
repeated occurrences with either

313
00:12:33,590 --> 00:12:30,779
sightings or abductions or experiences

314
00:12:35,389 --> 00:12:33,600
of some kind and it comes from Mom and

315
00:12:36,590 --> 00:12:35,399
Dad's side they used to have experiences

316
00:12:39,470 --> 00:12:36,600
and now they're worried about their

317
00:12:41,389 --> 00:12:39,480
children having these experiences and

318
00:12:43,009 --> 00:12:41,399
even thinking about it now for the

319
00:12:45,470 --> 00:12:43,019
amount of people the millions of people

320
00:12:47,090 --> 00:12:45,480
that are you know estimated to be going

321
00:12:48,650 --> 00:12:47,100
through these experiences there's

322
00:12:50,870 --> 00:12:48,660
nothing out there there's no content

323
00:12:53,210 --> 00:12:50,880
there's no there's no book about it

324
00:12:56,210 --> 00:12:53,220
right they have to seek stuff like I

325
00:12:59,210 --> 00:12:56,220
know Ralph you uh delve very deeply

326
00:13:01,449 --> 00:12:59,220
in John Mack's life you're probably the

327
00:13:04,250 --> 00:13:01,459
leading expert at this point on the men

328
00:13:05,990 --> 00:13:04,260
you've written a fantastic book by the

329
00:13:07,730 --> 00:13:06,000
way for the listeners and the viewers of

330
00:13:09,769 --> 00:13:07,740
YouTube If you haven't picked up the

331
00:13:11,990 --> 00:13:09,779
Believers we're also promoting uh this

332
00:13:15,650 --> 00:13:12,000
book as well all the time because it is

333
00:13:17,509 --> 00:13:15,660
a great book uh but a man like him

334
00:13:19,850 --> 00:13:17,519
and I find that you know a very high

335
00:13:22,430 --> 00:13:19,860
intellectual person you guys are very

336
00:13:24,290 --> 00:13:22,440
highly intellectual people coming on

337
00:13:25,910 --> 00:13:24,300
board and talking about this and saying

338
00:13:29,150 --> 00:13:25,920
hey let's let's open that that

339
00:13:30,470 --> 00:13:29,160
discussion in families is really

340
00:13:32,449 --> 00:13:30,480
important especially for the

341
00:13:34,430 --> 00:13:32,459
experiencers as well this is this is

342
00:13:36,590 --> 00:13:34,440
groundbreaking you know as you point out

343
00:13:38,690 --> 00:13:36,600
John Mack was very interested in

344
00:13:42,009 --> 00:13:38,700
children's reactions because he found

345
00:13:45,170 --> 00:13:42,019
them uh really

346
00:13:46,970 --> 00:13:45,180
uncontaminated by you know Society they

347
00:13:48,250 --> 00:13:46,980
hadn't read much they hadn't seen you

348
00:13:51,110 --> 00:13:48,260
know movies about

349
00:13:53,329 --> 00:13:51,120
UFOs they basically were just reporting

350
00:13:56,329 --> 00:13:53,339
their their observations and their

351
00:13:58,190 --> 00:13:56,339
experiences so yeah he took the

352
00:13:59,930 --> 00:13:58,200
children's accounts very seriously but

353
00:14:01,750 --> 00:13:59,940
you know what I want to point out it's

354
00:14:04,069 --> 00:14:01,760
not just the parents who've had

355
00:14:06,889 --> 00:14:04,079
experiences who who now can talk to

356
00:14:10,550 --> 00:14:06,899
their kids about it but the opposite the

357
00:14:12,889 --> 00:14:10,560
parents who are Skeptics uh and don't

358
00:14:14,990 --> 00:14:12,899
believe in it uh or or the thing is you

359
00:14:17,690 --> 00:14:15,000
know all kinds of nonsense or afraid of

360
00:14:20,389 --> 00:14:17,700
it think it's the demonic let's say this

361
00:14:25,009 --> 00:14:20,399
gives them a chance to look at the

362
00:14:27,590 --> 00:14:25,019
phenomenon really through very clear you

363
00:14:30,769 --> 00:14:27,600
know eyes and and discuss it with their

364
00:14:33,350 --> 00:14:30,779
kids so one of the concerns we had all

365
00:14:35,810 --> 00:14:33,360
along was how this phenomena would play

366
00:14:37,250 --> 00:14:35,820
in the Heartland you know where there is

367
00:14:39,170 --> 00:14:37,260
more skepticism there's more

368
00:14:42,410 --> 00:14:39,180
fundamentalism

369
00:14:45,230 --> 00:14:42,420
um and parents who may be particularly

370
00:14:47,210 --> 00:14:45,240
averse to to discussing the subject

371
00:14:48,829 --> 00:14:47,220
wait sure I wanted to ask you Deborah

372
00:14:49,970 --> 00:14:48,839
where does your interest in this topic

373
00:14:52,430 --> 00:14:49,980
come from have you ever had any

374
00:14:54,350 --> 00:14:52,440
experiences or anything that kind of

375
00:14:57,590 --> 00:14:54,360
prompted you to think yeah it's possible

376
00:15:00,590 --> 00:14:57,600
or get excited about it I've no I have

377
00:15:02,930 --> 00:15:00,600
not had any experiences and it really is

378
00:15:04,910 --> 00:15:02,940
a topic that I never spent much time

379
00:15:08,449 --> 00:15:04,920
with until you know Ralph started

380
00:15:10,850 --> 00:15:08,459
researching his book and hearing him

381
00:15:14,269 --> 00:15:10,860
especially during the pandemic at home

382
00:15:16,430 --> 00:15:14,279
doing doing podcast after podcast made

383
00:15:18,290 --> 00:15:16,440
me wonder gee is there anything out

384
00:15:19,370 --> 00:15:18,300
there for children you know as a

385
00:15:22,310 --> 00:15:19,380
children's book writer you're always

386
00:15:24,710 --> 00:15:22,320
searching for new projects and and so it

387
00:15:26,810 --> 00:15:24,720
really surprised me that there wasn't as

388
00:15:29,930 --> 00:15:26,820
far as I could find

389
00:15:34,069 --> 00:15:29,940
um but you know a very basic factual

390
00:15:37,069 --> 00:15:34,079
book on on UFOs for kids so I I said wow

391
00:15:38,269 --> 00:15:37,079
we should you know try to collaborate on

392
00:15:40,370 --> 00:15:38,279
this

393
00:15:43,730 --> 00:15:40,380
yeah the artwork in the book is is is

394
00:15:45,829 --> 00:15:43,740
fantastic I think it adds that depth to

395
00:15:48,350 --> 00:15:45,839
the you know introducing the subject but

396
00:15:50,509 --> 00:15:48,360
just the imagery of the paintings that

397
00:15:53,090 --> 00:15:50,519
are in the book which is fantastic I

398
00:15:54,829 --> 00:15:53,100
think that played a huge part too the

399
00:15:57,590 --> 00:15:54,839
overall look of the book and the feel of

400
00:16:00,470 --> 00:15:57,600
it like it's uh it's it's striking I I

401
00:16:03,590 --> 00:16:00,480
like it you know Adam Gustafson who

402
00:16:06,889 --> 00:16:03,600
illustrated the book is a very talented

403
00:16:08,269 --> 00:16:06,899
illustrator yeah and you know it he said

404
00:16:11,509 --> 00:16:08,279
it took him a while in the beginning

405
00:16:13,009 --> 00:16:11,519
just to get the feel and the Mystery but

406
00:16:14,870 --> 00:16:13,019
I'm just I have the

407
00:16:16,610 --> 00:16:14,880
cover of the book right here man that's

408
00:16:18,889 --> 00:16:16,620
a good looking book yeah apparently he's

409
00:16:21,350 --> 00:16:18,899
Illustrated what 30 books something like

410
00:16:23,689 --> 00:16:21,360
that I don't know how many actually but

411
00:16:26,210 --> 00:16:23,699
yeah that's what my research shows 30

412
00:16:28,430 --> 00:16:26,220
bucks and each one is like a work of art

413
00:16:29,350 --> 00:16:28,440
in itself it could be a poster just that

414
00:16:31,850 --> 00:16:29,360
page

415
00:16:34,730 --> 00:16:31,860
he spends a lot of time you know

416
00:16:37,389 --> 00:16:34,740
thinking through each project and his

417
00:16:39,710 --> 00:16:37,399
use of color I think is particularly

418
00:16:44,030 --> 00:16:39,720
appropriate in this book because it's

419
00:16:46,550 --> 00:16:44,040
this Eerie greenish dark

420
00:16:48,650 --> 00:16:46,560
um you know mixture of colors and and I

421
00:16:50,329 --> 00:16:48,660
think he does capture the mystery very

422
00:16:52,670 --> 00:16:50,339
very well you know he had done uh

423
00:16:54,710 --> 00:16:52,680
Illustrated another book of Deborah's uh

424
00:16:56,629 --> 00:16:54,720
the blue house dog

425
00:17:00,050 --> 00:16:56,639
um wasn't it yeah it was a blue store

426
00:17:01,790 --> 00:17:00,060
and um we were a little uh reluctant to

427
00:17:03,769 --> 00:17:01,800
approach him on this because we know how

428
00:17:06,169 --> 00:17:03,779
busy he is and he's a very successful

429
00:17:08,210 --> 00:17:06,179
artist and there wasn't a lot of time we

430
00:17:10,370 --> 00:17:08,220
were giving him but he was so

431
00:17:12,710 --> 00:17:10,380
enthusiastic he jumped on this he pushed

432
00:17:15,110 --> 00:17:12,720
everything else aside oh wow

433
00:17:17,630 --> 00:17:15,120
um he he really got into it and he

434
00:17:21,049 --> 00:17:17,640
produced these paintings actually as you

435
00:17:24,530 --> 00:17:21,059
said in in record time and and very

436
00:17:26,569 --> 00:17:24,540
effecting too so we're really uh

437
00:17:28,610 --> 00:17:26,579
delighted and humbled to be working with

438
00:17:30,770 --> 00:17:28,620
him on this do you know if he's a

439
00:17:32,810 --> 00:17:30,780
believer in the phenomenon as well I was

440
00:17:35,029 --> 00:17:32,820
thinking about that like in my mind when

441
00:17:37,370 --> 00:17:35,039
I looked at the imagery I'm thinking the

442
00:17:39,049 --> 00:17:37,380
person who drew this believes in the

443
00:17:40,970 --> 00:17:39,059
phenomenon that was just the impression

444
00:17:43,310 --> 00:17:40,980
that I got I think if it was a skeptic

445
00:17:44,810 --> 00:17:43,320
who illustrated it maybe it would have a

446
00:17:46,970 --> 00:17:44,820
different feel and a different look do

447
00:17:50,150 --> 00:17:46,980
you know if he's uh well I know is he's

448
00:17:52,909 --> 00:17:50,160
very engaged and he's very taken with

449
00:17:54,770 --> 00:17:52,919
the subject you know he's he lives in

450
00:17:57,710 --> 00:17:54,780
New Jersey we live we live in New York

451
00:17:59,450 --> 00:17:57,720
we haven't gotten together and spoken in

452
00:18:01,669 --> 00:17:59,460
depth about it

453
00:18:04,310 --> 00:18:01,679
um so you know I don't know he's never

454
00:18:06,710 --> 00:18:04,320
told us that he's had any experiences or

455
00:18:09,110 --> 00:18:06,720
anything like that but I know he was

456
00:18:12,169 --> 00:18:09,120
very captivated by the subject but you

457
00:18:14,270 --> 00:18:12,179
know also John Mack had never never had

458
00:18:17,570 --> 00:18:14,280
an experience of his own which is true

459
00:18:20,450 --> 00:18:17,580
he kind of regretted that but later he

460
00:18:23,270 --> 00:18:20,460
thought it was probably to the best for

461
00:18:25,850 --> 00:18:23,280
the best because it kept him pure to

462
00:18:28,549 --> 00:18:25,860
look at the phenomenon not as a partisan

463
00:18:30,590 --> 00:18:28,559
or anybody with an agenda but somebody

464
00:18:32,690 --> 00:18:30,600
coming to it from the outside and just

465
00:18:35,270 --> 00:18:32,700
trusting the accounts that he had gotten

466
00:18:37,669 --> 00:18:35,280
from the people who sought him out so

467
00:18:39,650 --> 00:18:37,679
you know Deborah that doesn't have these

468
00:18:41,990 --> 00:18:39,660
experiences I don't have them as far as

469
00:18:45,169 --> 00:18:42,000
I can remember and John Mack never did

470
00:18:47,750 --> 00:18:45,179
but it doesn't take somebody

471
00:18:50,630 --> 00:18:47,760
um who had these experiences to to be

472
00:18:53,450 --> 00:18:50,640
respectful of the phenomenon and to want

473
00:18:56,270 --> 00:18:53,460
to look into it because it is really one

474
00:18:58,190 --> 00:18:56,280
of the most colossal mysteries in the

475
00:19:00,650 --> 00:18:58,200
cosmos surely

476
00:19:02,270 --> 00:19:00,660
um and if you're not interested in this

477
00:19:03,470 --> 00:19:02,280
there's got to be something wrong with

478
00:19:05,150 --> 00:19:03,480
you yeah

479
00:19:07,070 --> 00:19:05,160
well that's always fascinating too

480
00:19:08,570 --> 00:19:07,080
because a lot of people that we've

481
00:19:10,850 --> 00:19:08,580
spoken to that have accomplished

482
00:19:12,710 --> 00:19:10,860
something in ufology meaning like a book

483
00:19:15,470 --> 00:19:12,720
or ground through a breakthrough

484
00:19:17,270 --> 00:19:15,480
research they've had an experience

485
00:19:19,310 --> 00:19:17,280
themselves and it drove them I wouldn't

486
00:19:22,610 --> 00:19:19,320
say drives them mad but it drives them

487
00:19:24,289 --> 00:19:22,620
to pursue and answer to a you know a

488
00:19:26,870 --> 00:19:24,299
question that if you ask anybody on the

489
00:19:29,330 --> 00:19:26,880
planet we're all like so we have to look

490
00:19:30,830 --> 00:19:29,340
into it right we have no other choice we

491
00:19:33,350 --> 00:19:30,840
have no

492
00:19:35,390 --> 00:19:33,360
my depending on the government to come

493
00:19:37,190 --> 00:19:35,400
out and tell us anything is

494
00:19:38,810 --> 00:19:37,200
recently has been shot down like a

495
00:19:40,669 --> 00:19:38,820
Chinese balloon you know what I mean I

496
00:19:43,130 --> 00:19:40,679
don't no longer believe it that's going

497
00:19:45,470 --> 00:19:43,140
to happen but as long as the the people

498
00:19:47,270 --> 00:19:45,480
uh you know and the people in the

499
00:19:49,730 --> 00:19:47,280
military we mentioned this quite a bit

500
00:19:51,289 --> 00:19:49,740
the men and women that serve and come

501
00:19:52,549 --> 00:19:51,299
out and and say look there's something

502
00:19:53,990 --> 00:19:52,559
going on

503
00:19:55,310 --> 00:19:54,000
because the military is having

504
00:19:58,010 --> 00:19:55,320
engagements

505
00:19:59,990 --> 00:19:58,020
with these unknowns uh you know through

506
00:20:01,909 --> 00:20:00,000
my career there and as far as I can find

507
00:20:04,010 --> 00:20:01,919
out through history and it's not being

508
00:20:06,650 --> 00:20:04,020
told to the public which is also having

509
00:20:07,909 --> 00:20:06,660
the similar experiences so we all know

510
00:20:10,430 --> 00:20:07,919
that we're all experiencing this

511
00:20:12,890 --> 00:20:10,440
together we've even interviewed people

512
00:20:14,630 --> 00:20:12,900
inside the Department of Defense that

513
00:20:16,669 --> 00:20:14,640
we're working for cias and there were

514
00:20:19,370 --> 00:20:16,679
experiencers themselves while they were

515
00:20:21,890 --> 00:20:19,380
working for the government so it doesn't

516
00:20:24,590 --> 00:20:21,900
matter who you are what level and rank

517
00:20:27,710 --> 00:20:24,600
we give you based on our you know social

518
00:20:29,750 --> 00:20:27,720
standings uh this is is an issue that

519
00:20:31,610 --> 00:20:29,760
affects each and every one of us even if

520
00:20:34,250 --> 00:20:31,620
you're not experiencing yourself

521
00:20:35,990 --> 00:20:34,260
the implications of them being here will

522
00:20:37,730 --> 00:20:36,000
affect you at some point right I mean

523
00:20:40,549 --> 00:20:37,740
what are the many mysteries of this

524
00:20:43,490 --> 00:20:40,559
phenomenon is who gets to participate in

525
00:20:45,350 --> 00:20:43,500
it right it's not something you can you

526
00:20:47,750 --> 00:20:45,360
know volunteer for

527
00:20:50,750 --> 00:20:47,760
um and John Mack as I said would have

528
00:20:53,810 --> 00:20:50,760
loved to have you know seen a UFO to

529
00:20:55,310 --> 00:20:53,820
experience the phenomenon firsthand but

530
00:20:59,930 --> 00:20:55,320
for some reason which we don't

531
00:21:03,529 --> 00:21:01,370
um so

532
00:21:05,270 --> 00:21:03,539
um but you're absolutely right that the

533
00:21:07,250 --> 00:21:05,280
the numbers of people who have

534
00:21:10,029 --> 00:21:07,260
experienced this phenomenon in one way

535
00:21:12,950 --> 00:21:10,039
or another is so the numbers are so

536
00:21:15,590 --> 00:21:12,960
astounding that

537
00:21:17,630 --> 00:21:15,600
um this issue cannot be swept under the

538
00:21:19,730 --> 00:21:17,640
rug I mean people know what they've seen

539
00:21:22,310 --> 00:21:19,740
and all the years when the government

540
00:21:24,830 --> 00:21:22,320
told them no you didn't see that or you

541
00:21:27,470 --> 00:21:24,840
saw a hallucination or was a dream or a

542
00:21:28,909 --> 00:21:27,480
nightmare that's the ridiculous thing I

543
00:21:32,230 --> 00:21:28,919
mean these people know what they've

544
00:21:34,850 --> 00:21:32,240
experienced know what they've seen so um

545
00:21:36,470 --> 00:21:34,860
uh you know I I think we're we're

546
00:21:38,330 --> 00:21:36,480
heading in the right direction I mean

547
00:21:41,029 --> 00:21:38,340
it's going to take a while I don't think

548
00:21:43,789 --> 00:21:41,039
we're at the at the cusp of disclosure

549
00:21:45,169 --> 00:21:43,799
but I also think that the you know we

550
00:21:47,270 --> 00:21:45,179
can talk about this the government has

551
00:21:49,250 --> 00:21:47,280
come a considerable distance toward

552
00:21:50,750 --> 00:21:49,260
acknowledging the phenomenon and saying

553
00:21:52,970 --> 00:21:50,760
that it is real

554
00:21:54,770 --> 00:21:52,980
yeah I wanted to ask just to go back to

555
00:21:56,630 --> 00:21:54,780
the book for a minute because of the

556
00:21:58,370 --> 00:21:56,640
phenomenon is so varied there are so

557
00:22:00,230 --> 00:21:58,380
many aspects of it so many things you

558
00:22:02,029 --> 00:22:00,240
could have delved into you did mention

559
00:22:04,669 --> 00:22:02,039
that you wanted sort of a broad

560
00:22:07,430 --> 00:22:04,679
acceptance even in really fundamentalist

561
00:22:10,130 --> 00:22:07,440
areas so how did you decide what to put

562
00:22:12,049 --> 00:22:10,140
in the book and like what wouldn't make

563
00:22:13,310 --> 00:22:12,059
the cut or what didn't make the cut for

564
00:22:15,950 --> 00:22:13,320
this book

565
00:22:20,270 --> 00:22:15,960
well we were very strict about what went

566
00:22:23,630 --> 00:22:20,280
into the book and we only included

567
00:22:27,049 --> 00:22:23,640
you know documented like the story of

568
00:22:29,350 --> 00:22:27,059
the children in Zimbabwe who witnessed

569
00:22:31,850 --> 00:22:29,360
uh something

570
00:22:34,070 --> 00:22:31,860
and there are accounts that were all

571
00:22:37,250 --> 00:22:34,080
very similar and you know that was there

572
00:22:40,070 --> 00:22:37,260
was no doubt about it there was no uh

573
00:22:42,529 --> 00:22:40,080
question about what they encountered

574
00:22:45,710 --> 00:22:42,539
what they saw because they all reported

575
00:22:50,450 --> 00:22:45,720
the same type of thing and the Navy

576
00:22:53,930 --> 00:22:50,460
pilot videos we have we included those

577
00:22:56,390 --> 00:22:53,940
um we spoke briefly about Roswell

578
00:23:01,669 --> 00:22:56,400
um so we really stuck to

579
00:23:04,370 --> 00:23:01,679
the very very Undisputed accounts and no

580
00:23:07,010 --> 00:23:04,380
speculation really

581
00:23:09,710 --> 00:23:07,020
um and we we talked about the Mysteries

582
00:23:12,230 --> 00:23:09,720
and and you know what we hope children

583
00:23:15,470 --> 00:23:12,240
will talk about so we were pretty we

584
00:23:16,970 --> 00:23:15,480
were pretty uh Limited in scope but we

585
00:23:19,310 --> 00:23:16,980
were confident that everything we

586
00:23:21,950 --> 00:23:19,320
included was Rock Solid you know and

587
00:23:23,930 --> 00:23:21,960
also we had the benefit of a very good

588
00:23:27,049 --> 00:23:23,940
team at the University of New Mexico

589
00:23:28,970 --> 00:23:27,059
press uh Publishers and they subjected

590
00:23:31,450 --> 00:23:28,980
the book to a lot of scrutiny because

591
00:23:34,490 --> 00:23:31,460
you know they were a university press so

592
00:23:37,370 --> 00:23:34,500
they want to be accused of

593
00:23:39,470 --> 00:23:37,380
um uh you know misstating anything or

594
00:23:42,529 --> 00:23:39,480
you know going out on a limb and they

595
00:23:45,490 --> 00:23:42,539
actually showed the book to a number of

596
00:23:49,490 --> 00:23:45,500
um experts on psychologists and others

597
00:23:52,190 --> 00:23:49,500
for their input and we were happy to say

598
00:23:54,710 --> 00:23:52,200
it was all positive so we had a lot of

599
00:23:57,649 --> 00:23:54,720
set of eyes on this and we as Deborah

600
00:24:02,390 --> 00:23:57,659
said we were very careful to strictly to

601
00:24:06,070 --> 00:24:02,400
stick to facts and and cases that are

602
00:24:09,049 --> 00:24:06,080
you know historic like Roswell and uh

603
00:24:11,450 --> 00:24:09,059
and these the school in Harare in

604
00:24:14,870 --> 00:24:11,460
Zimbabwe where children

605
00:24:18,710 --> 00:24:14,880
um saw some some kind of a landing and

606
00:24:20,450 --> 00:24:18,720
60 different kids that Drew pictures uh

607
00:24:22,850 --> 00:24:20,460
had some experience that no one could

608
00:24:25,669 --> 00:24:22,860
explain and John Mack investigated that

609
00:24:27,590 --> 00:24:25,679
there's actually a film out about it the

610
00:24:30,350 --> 00:24:27,600
Ariel the name of the school the Ariel

611
00:24:32,810 --> 00:24:30,360
phenomenon by one of John Mack's

612
00:24:34,549 --> 00:24:32,820
experiencers Randy Nickerson it's a it's

613
00:24:37,430 --> 00:24:34,559
a very good film getting attention now

614
00:24:39,350 --> 00:24:37,440
so um so there are a lot of set of eyes

615
00:24:41,210 --> 00:24:39,360
on this we made the initial decisions

616
00:24:43,909 --> 00:24:41,220
but the University of New Mexico press

617
00:24:46,669 --> 00:24:43,919
editors uh looked it over to and made

618
00:24:48,310 --> 00:24:46,679
sure that everything was solid and so

619
00:24:51,529 --> 00:24:48,320
that's why it came out the way it did

620
00:24:54,590 --> 00:24:51,539
you you mentioned that they showed us a

621
00:24:55,909 --> 00:24:54,600
kid psychologists like to make sure that

622
00:24:58,070 --> 00:24:55,919
it wasn't they want to make sure not

623
00:24:59,510 --> 00:24:58,080
poisoning the youth's Minds right if

624
00:25:01,130 --> 00:24:59,520
they're putting their name on it they

625
00:25:02,990 --> 00:25:01,140
want to make sure it's not traumatizing

626
00:25:05,630 --> 00:25:03,000
I would imagine oh yeah right they

627
00:25:08,210 --> 00:25:05,640
wanted to know if children's if child

628
00:25:10,669 --> 00:25:08,220
psychologists had issues with it or

629
00:25:13,549 --> 00:25:10,679
concerns it was anything that we should

630
00:25:17,090 --> 00:25:13,559
address that we didn't or anything we

631
00:25:20,029 --> 00:25:17,100
said that they felt might be problematic

632
00:25:23,090 --> 00:25:20,039
in some way so you know we were glad to

633
00:25:25,669 --> 00:25:23,100
have that extra level of scrutiny right

634
00:25:28,130 --> 00:25:25,679
no it's it's interesting too because a

635
00:25:31,789 --> 00:25:28,140
lot of kids that have experiences with

636
00:25:33,350 --> 00:25:31,799
entities or UFOs seem to perceive this

637
00:25:35,990 --> 00:25:33,360
phenomenon differently than we do as

638
00:25:37,610 --> 00:25:36,000
adults as adults it's a threat threat to

639
00:25:40,610 --> 00:25:37,620
our kids threat to our national security

640
00:25:42,950 --> 00:25:40,620
but kids have a different view of it and

641
00:25:45,110 --> 00:25:42,960
you know throughout researching this

642
00:25:47,630 --> 00:25:45,120
phenomenon you find how many times uh

643
00:25:49,250 --> 00:25:47,640
crafts have appeared near schools or

644
00:25:51,010 --> 00:25:49,260
near parks where children are playing

645
00:25:53,029 --> 00:25:51,020
like there's an actual interest there

646
00:25:55,190 --> 00:25:53,039
and the kids have a different

647
00:25:57,409 --> 00:25:55,200
perspective of this phenomenon than we

648
00:25:58,490 --> 00:25:57,419
do you don't often hear a kid say I was

649
00:26:00,409 --> 00:25:58,500
afraid

650
00:26:02,149 --> 00:26:00,419
even though they might be a little bit

651
00:26:04,010 --> 00:26:02,159
fearful of the situation they knew they

652
00:26:07,130 --> 00:26:04,020
were safe somehow and I don't think we

653
00:26:09,110 --> 00:26:07,140
perceive that as adults right so there's

654
00:26:11,269 --> 00:26:09,120
there's a Fascination there with kids in

655
00:26:13,789 --> 00:26:11,279
this phenomenon well kids are truth

656
00:26:16,490 --> 00:26:13,799
tellers and um this is what fascinated

657
00:26:20,510 --> 00:26:16,500
John Mack who was very Adept as a child

658
00:26:22,250 --> 00:26:20,520
psychologist as well as a psychiatrist

659
00:26:23,810 --> 00:26:22,260
um he had three sons of his own and he

660
00:26:27,529 --> 00:26:23,820
was very interested in their development

661
00:26:29,810 --> 00:26:27,539
and when you see him interacting uh with

662
00:26:31,870 --> 00:26:29,820
young people he he literally gets down

663
00:26:37,789 --> 00:26:31,880
on their level he gets down on the floor

664
00:26:40,130 --> 00:26:37,799
and the way he talks to them uh is is so

665
00:26:42,110 --> 00:26:40,140
um sensitive you know he doesn't

666
00:26:45,289 --> 00:26:42,120
prejudge them I mean you know some

667
00:26:48,549 --> 00:26:45,299
Skeptics accuse John Mack of

668
00:26:51,169 --> 00:26:48,559
um uh you know

669
00:26:53,510 --> 00:26:51,179
distorting the evidence or planting

670
00:26:55,430 --> 00:26:53,520
information but he doesn't do that when

671
00:26:58,070 --> 00:26:55,440
you watch the actual videos he's very

672
00:26:58,970 --> 00:26:58,080
open-minded about what the kids have to

673
00:27:01,669 --> 00:26:58,980
say

674
00:27:03,890 --> 00:27:01,679
yeah so it is very interesting to get

675
00:27:05,630 --> 00:27:03,900
the kids accounts and this is on on film

676
00:27:07,070 --> 00:27:05,640
it's in in the movie The aerial

677
00:27:09,590 --> 00:27:07,080
phenomenon

678
00:27:11,690 --> 00:27:09,600
um I have excerpts in my book uh the

679
00:27:13,669 --> 00:27:11,700
believer about John's you know

680
00:27:16,070 --> 00:27:13,679
interaction with the kids and it really

681
00:27:18,769 --> 00:27:16,080
is fascinating as you say

682
00:27:21,169 --> 00:27:18,779
um they don't express fear so much as

683
00:27:23,390 --> 00:27:21,179
they're kind of a conduit for you know

684
00:27:25,669 --> 00:27:23,400
these messages that they said they were

685
00:27:27,230 --> 00:27:25,679
receiving yeah and we had Randy

686
00:27:29,510 --> 00:27:27,240
Nickerson on our show we talked about

687
00:27:31,310 --> 00:27:29,520
his movie and you know we were

688
00:27:33,409 --> 00:27:31,320
mentioning earlier about trauma and the

689
00:27:35,750 --> 00:27:33,419
main character in the movie now she's

690
00:27:36,950 --> 00:27:35,760
grown up but as soon as she went back to

691
00:27:40,310 --> 00:27:36,960
the same place where it happened

692
00:27:42,710 --> 00:27:40,320
instantly Rush of emotions and fear and

693
00:27:44,630 --> 00:27:42,720
like nerves and all this stuff over

694
00:27:47,390 --> 00:27:44,640
something that happened so long ago and

695
00:27:49,250 --> 00:27:47,400
it even as a kid a lot of people kind of

696
00:27:51,049 --> 00:27:49,260
downplayed that and said ah kids what do

697
00:27:52,730 --> 00:27:51,059
they know they know enough that that

698
00:27:54,769 --> 00:27:52,740
implanted them for the rest of their

699
00:27:57,049 --> 00:27:54,779
lives and even as grown adults they

700
00:27:59,810 --> 00:27:57,059
would never forget it so do you think

701
00:28:01,250 --> 00:27:59,820
that would be the case if and a big part

702
00:28:03,590 --> 00:28:01,260
of it was they'd explained that they had

703
00:28:04,850 --> 00:28:03,600
never seen aliens or like UFO movies

704
00:28:07,909 --> 00:28:04,860
yeah they didn't have a frame of

705
00:28:09,470 --> 00:28:07,919
reference exactly yeah and if your book

706
00:28:11,029 --> 00:28:09,480
had been out do you think maybe that

707
00:28:14,110 --> 00:28:11,039
would have removed some of that for

708
00:28:19,610 --> 00:28:17,330
the kids are very fresh in their uh

709
00:28:20,470 --> 00:28:19,620
responses it's very visceral responses

710
00:28:23,330 --> 00:28:20,480
yeah

711
00:28:25,789 --> 00:28:23,340
and as you say you know with the Randy

712
00:28:29,510 --> 00:28:25,799
Randy nickerson's film uh you know takes

713
00:28:33,230 --> 00:28:29,520
them sees them it used them today as

714
00:28:35,390 --> 00:28:33,240
their grown-ups and they're still uh you

715
00:28:37,310 --> 00:28:35,400
know shaped by this a remarkable

716
00:28:39,830 --> 00:28:37,320
experience they had as as young people

717
00:28:43,330 --> 00:28:39,840
you never forget that obviously it's

718
00:28:45,649 --> 00:28:43,340
it's just you know it it's uh

719
00:28:47,390 --> 00:28:45,659
Unforgettable experience

720
00:28:49,669 --> 00:28:47,400
um so and they know the difference

721
00:28:52,370 --> 00:28:49,679
between you know a nightmare or a

722
00:28:54,529 --> 00:28:52,380
hallucination and and this reaction it's

723
00:28:57,110 --> 00:28:54,539
some kind of other reality that we don't

724
00:28:59,090 --> 00:28:57,120
understand which is why we say in the

725
00:29:01,310 --> 00:28:59,100
subtitle of our book and miss the reason

726
00:29:02,210 --> 00:29:01,320
this guy it is a mystery we don't claim

727
00:29:08,210 --> 00:29:02,220
to

728
00:29:10,130 --> 00:29:08,220
but it starts with understanding uh you

729
00:29:12,590 --> 00:29:10,140
know that acknowledging that this is a

730
00:29:14,810 --> 00:29:12,600
mystery and and none of the Skeptics

731
00:29:16,850 --> 00:29:14,820
so-called Skeptics uh have a

732
00:29:18,830 --> 00:29:16,860
satisfactory explanation

733
00:29:21,049 --> 00:29:18,840
um you know we just have to keep an open

734
00:29:23,149 --> 00:29:21,059
mind but acknowledge that this is

735
00:29:25,070 --> 00:29:23,159
something that is going to be with us

736
00:29:28,310 --> 00:29:25,080
for for quite a while has been with us

737
00:29:32,269 --> 00:29:28,320
probably you know for many many you know

738
00:29:33,230 --> 00:29:32,279
Millennia yeah and um we we just don't

739
00:29:37,669 --> 00:29:33,240
know

740
00:29:38,750 --> 00:29:37,679
of having people like yourselves Ralph

741
00:29:40,310 --> 00:29:38,760
and Deborah

742
00:29:41,870 --> 00:29:40,320
um you know people of intellect people

743
00:29:43,909 --> 00:29:41,880
that are writers and people have

744
00:29:46,669 --> 00:29:43,919
contributed people that are passionate

745
00:29:48,529 --> 00:29:46,679
that are talking about this issue and

746
00:29:50,029 --> 00:29:48,539
saying you know what we also are

747
00:29:51,470 --> 00:29:50,039
interested in this issue This concerns

748
00:29:53,389 --> 00:29:51,480
us as much as it concerns a common

749
00:29:56,210 --> 00:29:53,399
person and I'm not saying people are

750
00:29:57,529 --> 00:29:56,220
beneath you uh you know but uh I'm just

751
00:29:59,210 --> 00:29:57,539
saying that

752
00:30:00,830 --> 00:29:59,220
you're achieving something you have

753
00:30:02,450 --> 00:30:00,840
achieved something in your life to be

754
00:30:05,330 --> 00:30:02,460
able to open people's minds to different

755
00:30:07,730 --> 00:30:05,340
ideas and Concepts you both have done

756
00:30:10,130 --> 00:30:07,740
that as careers and you're able to do

757
00:30:11,750 --> 00:30:10,140
that in your books as well saying hey

758
00:30:13,490 --> 00:30:11,760
let's explore this topic because it

759
00:30:15,710 --> 00:30:13,500
deserves to be talked about

760
00:30:18,590 --> 00:30:15,720
and even Ralph in your book The Believer

761
00:30:20,330 --> 00:30:18,600
I mean uh it's a great fantastic read

762
00:30:22,430 --> 00:30:20,340
Because you you write it like basically

763
00:30:24,889 --> 00:30:22,440
we get this in-depth look of a man that

764
00:30:26,570 --> 00:30:24,899
was passionate above the subject and

765
00:30:28,430 --> 00:30:26,580
what was his Drive in the passion

766
00:30:30,289 --> 00:30:28,440
because just to be introduced by Bud

767
00:30:32,149 --> 00:30:30,299
Hopkins saying hey you should look into

768
00:30:34,490 --> 00:30:32,159
these and it's like a bunch of wackos

769
00:30:37,190 --> 00:30:34,500
and then to be converted and saying

770
00:30:40,070 --> 00:30:37,200
these guys are not crazy these are legit

771
00:30:42,889 --> 00:30:40,080
people police officers and people again

772
00:30:44,570 --> 00:30:42,899
in a defensive apartment military uh to

773
00:30:45,889 --> 00:30:44,580
the the common you know person that

774
00:30:48,230 --> 00:30:45,899
stays at home takes care of the kids

775
00:30:50,810 --> 00:30:48,240
like it doesn't matter who you are what

776
00:30:53,149 --> 00:30:50,820
Creed religion location on this planet

777
00:30:56,149 --> 00:30:53,159
this is a universal problem that we have

778
00:30:59,870 --> 00:30:56,159
right yeah that's why UAP Universal

779
00:31:02,450 --> 00:30:59,880
alien problem we all have it right yeah

780
00:31:05,149 --> 00:31:02,460
um yeah you know I'll also say something

781
00:31:06,950 --> 00:31:05,159
I'm not the expert on John Mack but one

782
00:31:09,769 --> 00:31:06,960
thing that struck me when Ralph was

783
00:31:12,649 --> 00:31:09,779
doing his research was he was very

784
00:31:15,060 --> 00:31:12,659
childlike and he was so open to all

785
00:31:20,110 --> 00:31:15,070
types of different

786
00:31:27,710 --> 00:31:23,930
but he really he did open to him himself

787
00:31:31,789 --> 00:31:27,720
up to life yeah to all kinds of you know

788
00:31:34,430 --> 00:31:31,799
breathing practices and philosophies and

789
00:31:35,810 --> 00:31:34,440
experiences and I think that's very

790
00:31:39,110 --> 00:31:35,820
unusual

791
00:31:43,010 --> 00:31:39,120
um in an adult and and especially in a

792
00:31:45,049 --> 00:31:43,020
medical doctor and you know that's maybe

793
00:31:46,909 --> 00:31:45,059
what drew me a little bit into the

794
00:31:49,730 --> 00:31:46,919
subject the fact that someone like that

795
00:31:51,289 --> 00:31:49,740
could be so taken with people who'd had

796
00:31:53,389 --> 00:31:51,299
these experiences that they didn't

797
00:31:56,090 --> 00:31:53,399
understand so

798
00:31:58,669 --> 00:31:56,100
um you know it's it's a fascinating yarn

799
00:32:00,710 --> 00:31:58,679
and this seemed like a natural follow to

800
00:32:02,570 --> 00:32:00,720
that to the believer and I mean you do

801
00:32:04,970 --> 00:32:02,580
have to be kind of courageous to wade

802
00:32:07,430 --> 00:32:04,980
into this topic because there's a lot of

803
00:32:09,950 --> 00:32:07,440
people out there who will uh you know

804
00:32:12,409 --> 00:32:09,960
disparage you in in John Max case

805
00:32:15,409 --> 00:32:12,419
Harvard investigated him they set up a

806
00:32:16,730 --> 00:32:15,419
what I call an inquisition really to you

807
00:32:20,450 --> 00:32:16,740
know to

808
00:32:24,230 --> 00:32:20,460
um look into his practices and finances

809
00:32:26,149 --> 00:32:24,240
really very intrusive but he he he was a

810
00:32:29,930 --> 00:32:26,159
very special kind of guy he had the

811
00:32:31,549 --> 00:32:29,940
courage to not to care about how it

812
00:32:34,990 --> 00:32:31,559
might look to his colleagues and a lot

813
00:32:37,789 --> 00:32:35,000
of people made fun of him but he he was

814
00:32:40,490 --> 00:32:37,799
really the kind of special human being

815
00:32:42,370 --> 00:32:40,500
who doesn't walk away from a mystery who

816
00:32:44,510 --> 00:32:42,380
who's determined to

817
00:32:46,310 --> 00:32:44,520
investigate it and which is why at the

818
00:32:49,130 --> 00:32:46,320
end of my book I sort of compare him to

819
00:32:51,710 --> 00:32:49,140
a hero you know the hero's journey

820
00:32:53,389 --> 00:32:51,720
um so that that that did inspire me I

821
00:32:55,789 --> 00:32:53,399
have to say that

822
00:32:58,370 --> 00:32:55,799
um and he made a lot of mistakes too he

823
00:33:02,649 --> 00:32:58,380
wasn't a perfect human being but this is

824
00:33:05,289 --> 00:33:02,659
a field that really invites and requires

825
00:33:07,909 --> 00:33:05,299
courage and independent

826
00:33:10,130 --> 00:33:07,919
investigation because nobody has an

827
00:33:12,710 --> 00:33:10,140
answer but

828
00:33:14,870 --> 00:33:12,720
um it can't be ignored right even

829
00:33:17,149 --> 00:33:14,880
talking to Abby Loeb I think was last

830
00:33:18,590 --> 00:33:17,159
week Louis and he mentioned that he's

831
00:33:20,389 --> 00:33:18,600
been like this since he was a kid if he

832
00:33:23,090 --> 00:33:20,399
would approach the you know kitchen

833
00:33:24,889 --> 00:33:23,100
table and ask an adult a question and

834
00:33:26,570 --> 00:33:24,899
the adult would just regurgitate some

835
00:33:29,269 --> 00:33:26,580
sort of answer that that we you know

836
00:33:31,549 --> 00:33:29,279
wasn't adequate to him or just sort of

837
00:33:33,230 --> 00:33:31,559
blew the subject away he would walk away

838
00:33:34,850 --> 00:33:33,240
and go find it the answer out for

839
00:33:36,830 --> 00:33:34,860
himself and he says he continues to do

840
00:33:39,110 --> 00:33:36,840
that even now like he's sitting down

841
00:33:40,370 --> 00:33:39,120
with people from seti which are in

842
00:33:42,350 --> 00:33:40,380
charge of looking for intelligent life

843
00:33:44,330 --> 00:33:42,360
but to them they can't fathom that we

844
00:33:46,430 --> 00:33:44,340
have UFOs like that they can't imagine

845
00:33:50,630 --> 00:33:46,440
that right it's interesting John Mack

846
00:33:52,310 --> 00:33:50,640
was no great fan of seti and uh he he uh

847
00:33:54,289 --> 00:33:52,320
laughed about the fact that they were

848
00:33:55,970 --> 00:33:54,299
using you know radio waves to try to

849
00:33:58,610 --> 00:33:55,980
communicate to other intelligent

850
00:34:01,370 --> 00:33:58,620
civilizations and he said uh searching

851
00:34:03,370 --> 00:34:01,380
the cosmo using seti is like searching

852
00:34:05,810 --> 00:34:03,380
the cosmos for a good Italian restaurant

853
00:34:08,149 --> 00:34:05,820
[Laughter]

854
00:34:11,930 --> 00:34:08,159
you know we're so hope Loosely Bound in

855
00:34:15,230 --> 00:34:11,940
our anthropomorphic mindset that we are

856
00:34:17,629 --> 00:34:15,240
looking uh you know for something you

857
00:34:19,190 --> 00:34:17,639
know new and unfathomable in the cosmos

858
00:34:21,649 --> 00:34:19,200
using

859
00:34:23,570 --> 00:34:21,659
um very basic maybe it's the only

860
00:34:25,010 --> 00:34:23,580
technology we have I you know I grant

861
00:34:27,770 --> 00:34:25,020
that but

862
00:34:31,070 --> 00:34:27,780
um he was against the idea that

863
00:34:34,430 --> 00:34:31,080
um uh or I should say he he favored the

864
00:34:36,649 --> 00:34:34,440
idea of expanding our our vision to try

865
00:34:39,050 --> 00:34:36,659
to think of things that

866
00:34:41,930 --> 00:34:39,060
um uh you know and just don't come to

867
00:34:44,930 --> 00:34:41,940
mind easily but just using radio waves

868
00:34:46,730 --> 00:34:44,940
to you know beam out a signal uh didn't

869
00:34:49,129 --> 00:34:46,740
seem like the the right way to go about

870
00:34:52,310 --> 00:34:49,139
it right A lot of times when information

871
00:34:54,349 --> 00:34:52,320
comes out in this field people get a

872
00:34:56,030 --> 00:34:54,359
hard time like look at the life of uh

873
00:34:58,670 --> 00:34:56,040
John Mack so I wanted to ask you what's

874
00:35:00,230 --> 00:34:58,680
been the feedback so far this is uh

875
00:35:02,570 --> 00:35:00,240
first of its kind like you said as far

876
00:35:04,609 --> 00:35:02,580
as you know have you had good reviews

877
00:35:08,089 --> 00:35:04,619
bad reviews what are people saying about

878
00:35:09,950 --> 00:35:08,099
your book yeah talk about reviews uh so

879
00:35:12,650 --> 00:35:09,960
far people everyone seems very

880
00:35:15,650 --> 00:35:12,660
interested in the topic I haven't gotten

881
00:35:17,329 --> 00:35:15,660
reviews from kids yet those are the ones

882
00:35:19,490 --> 00:35:17,339
we prize

883
00:35:22,010 --> 00:35:19,500
um so I'll be eager you know to hear

884
00:35:24,770 --> 00:35:22,020
more about that but certainly uh the

885
00:35:27,349 --> 00:35:24,780
response has been you know very good and

886
00:35:29,150 --> 00:35:27,359
very positive so we're you know we'll

887
00:35:31,130 --> 00:35:29,160
see what happens along the way we're

888
00:35:32,870 --> 00:35:31,140
going to be doing some children's Book

889
00:35:34,790 --> 00:35:32,880
Fairs and

890
00:35:37,609 --> 00:35:34,800
um I think those are great because we'll

891
00:35:40,190 --> 00:35:37,619
see who comes over to the table whether

892
00:35:42,349 --> 00:35:40,200
it's the parents it's the children you

893
00:35:44,270 --> 00:35:42,359
know what they think when they take the

894
00:35:46,609 --> 00:35:44,280
book and open it so that you know that's

895
00:35:49,430 --> 00:35:46,619
all to come children are a very tough

896
00:35:51,290 --> 00:35:49,440
Audience by the way oh really oh I have

897
00:35:54,410 --> 00:35:51,300
a two-year-old I know this for facts

898
00:35:56,950 --> 00:35:54,420
yeah you have to get their attention and

899
00:36:00,230 --> 00:35:56,960
talk about you know a tough room

900
00:36:03,770 --> 00:36:00,240
when you're reading I've been in many of

901
00:36:06,170 --> 00:36:03,780
Deborah's readings to to children and

902
00:36:08,510 --> 00:36:06,180
um her best books really grab the kids

903
00:36:10,069 --> 00:36:08,520
and and they're not faking it you know

904
00:36:13,790 --> 00:36:10,079
when they're interested they're wrapped

905
00:36:15,890 --> 00:36:13,800
and when they're bored they walk away so

906
00:36:18,530 --> 00:36:15,900
we'll be very interested to see how they

907
00:36:20,750 --> 00:36:18,540
respond to this I will say though this

908
00:36:23,990 --> 00:36:20,760
book is being marketed to the slightly

909
00:36:26,150 --> 00:36:24,000
older picture book reader six to nine I

910
00:36:28,490 --> 00:36:26,160
mean it's not a book for a kid who's a

911
00:36:30,650 --> 00:36:28,500
year old maybe they'll enjoy looking at

912
00:36:34,069 --> 00:36:30,660
the pictures but you know in terms of

913
00:36:36,410 --> 00:36:34,079
content it really is for an older a

914
00:36:38,630 --> 00:36:36,420
child and and even a middle grade reader

915
00:36:40,190 --> 00:36:38,640
yeah do you guys have a plan to do

916
00:36:42,650 --> 00:36:40,200
another one of these books or maybe go

917
00:36:44,270 --> 00:36:42,660
into different topics Consciousness for

918
00:36:47,270 --> 00:36:44,280
example any plans for that in the future

919
00:36:49,609 --> 00:36:47,280
no idea we really haven't gone there yet

920
00:36:52,310 --> 00:36:49,619
we haven't talked about that yet you

921
00:36:55,190 --> 00:36:52,320
know we're always looking for ideas and

922
00:36:56,470 --> 00:36:55,200
um uh let's write a book Ralph let's do

923
00:37:03,589 --> 00:36:56,480
it

924
00:37:05,870 --> 00:37:03,599
books and Deborah's too come about in

925
00:37:08,390 --> 00:37:05,880
serendipitous ways I mean we pick up

926
00:37:10,849 --> 00:37:08,400
something that is you know interests us

927
00:37:12,770 --> 00:37:10,859
takes us in a New Direction

928
00:37:14,870 --> 00:37:12,780
um some of my books grew out of other

929
00:37:16,609 --> 00:37:14,880
books I was doing and I came across a

930
00:37:18,170 --> 00:37:16,619
character

931
00:37:18,770 --> 00:37:18,180
um so

932
00:37:20,810 --> 00:37:18,780
um

933
00:37:23,030 --> 00:37:20,820
you know the the John MacBook came about

934
00:37:24,589 --> 00:37:23,040
because I was in Texas we were in Texas

935
00:37:26,270 --> 00:37:24,599
for the I was the correspondent for the

936
00:37:29,030 --> 00:37:26,280
New York Times and I happened to pick up

937
00:37:31,730 --> 00:37:29,040
one of John Mack's books and I thought

938
00:37:34,010 --> 00:37:31,740
gee this is an interesting a Harvard

939
00:37:38,150 --> 00:37:34,020
psychiatrist who's interested in you

940
00:37:41,329 --> 00:37:38,160
know UFOs and alien abduction phenomenon

941
00:37:43,490 --> 00:37:41,339
um so I you it it it's a strange process

942
00:37:45,650 --> 00:37:43,500
coming up with an idea for a book you

943
00:37:47,390 --> 00:37:45,660
just never know when an idea will will

944
00:37:49,250 --> 00:37:47,400
occur to you it's either an experience

945
00:37:51,950 --> 00:37:49,260
that you've had in your family or

946
00:37:54,410 --> 00:37:51,960
something else but we're open to you

947
00:37:56,089 --> 00:37:54,420
know working together again because it

948
00:37:59,390 --> 00:37:56,099
really was a good experience

949
00:38:03,050 --> 00:37:59,400
now just out of curiosity you're very

950
00:38:05,030 --> 00:38:03,060
um two Pleasant people right and I I

951
00:38:06,950 --> 00:38:05,040
could I totally I could totally see

952
00:38:08,329 --> 00:38:06,960
these uh you know these uh book tours

953
00:38:10,670 --> 00:38:08,339
are going to be successful for you guys

954
00:38:12,530 --> 00:38:10,680
it's not going to be an issue but when

955
00:38:14,450 --> 00:38:12,540
you you know because we all have family

956
00:38:15,589 --> 00:38:14,460
and friends that are on the fence on

957
00:38:17,630 --> 00:38:15,599
this issue

958
00:38:19,910 --> 00:38:17,640
you guys haven't written books and

959
00:38:22,550 --> 00:38:19,920
accomplished you know careers and award

960
00:38:25,609 --> 00:38:22,560
you know winning journalists when you

961
00:38:26,990 --> 00:38:25,619
approach a subject like UFOs or alien

962
00:38:28,730 --> 00:38:27,000
abductions or the possible even

963
00:38:31,190 --> 00:38:28,740
conversations with your friends and

964
00:38:33,950 --> 00:38:31,200
family are you getting a lot of pushback

965
00:38:35,990 --> 00:38:33,960
or people sort of just letting you

966
00:38:37,970 --> 00:38:36,000
have you know your say in it like

967
00:38:40,010 --> 00:38:37,980
because I've I've run across a lot of

968
00:38:41,390 --> 00:38:40,020
family and friends deleted me off of

969
00:38:42,710 --> 00:38:41,400
Facebook you know when I first started

970
00:38:43,910 --> 00:38:42,720
the podcast I didn't know what this was

971
00:38:45,410 --> 00:38:43,920
about

972
00:38:46,730 --> 00:38:45,420
um they don't want to you know if I

973
00:38:48,530 --> 00:38:46,740
start talking about the subject they

974
00:38:50,569 --> 00:38:48,540
glaze over and I could tell I lost them

975
00:38:52,670 --> 00:38:50,579
now are you guys experiencing that as

976
00:38:54,170 --> 00:38:52,680
well it's a very good question

977
00:38:56,990 --> 00:38:54,180
absolutely

978
00:38:57,710 --> 00:38:57,000
um I went for a haircut a few months ago

979
00:39:00,530 --> 00:38:57,720
and

980
00:39:01,790 --> 00:39:00,540
I mentioned in my hairdresser always

981
00:39:04,670 --> 00:39:01,800
releases and so I was telling her about

982
00:39:07,550 --> 00:39:04,680
the book and she said oh do you believe

983
00:39:10,190 --> 00:39:07,560
in UFOs so I said well you know it's not

984
00:39:13,310 --> 00:39:10,200
really a question of belief yeah

985
00:39:14,349 --> 00:39:13,320
um and yes we get a lot of that I mean

986
00:39:18,170 --> 00:39:14,359
there are

987
00:39:19,849 --> 00:39:18,180
uh really Highly Educated people we

988
00:39:21,530 --> 00:39:19,859
mentioned the book too and they kind of

989
00:39:24,230 --> 00:39:21,540
you know pushed the chair back a little

990
00:39:25,790 --> 00:39:24,240
bit and absolutely the P some people

991
00:39:27,710 --> 00:39:25,800
they don't want to talk about it they

992
00:39:30,410 --> 00:39:27,720
think it's Wacko and others are

993
00:39:32,810 --> 00:39:30,420
fascinated so there's definitely that

994
00:39:35,390 --> 00:39:32,820
disparity and you know that's just sort

995
00:39:37,370 --> 00:39:35,400
of the way the world is we hope more and

996
00:39:39,470 --> 00:39:37,380
more people will be drawn to the subject

997
00:39:41,569 --> 00:39:39,480
but some of them are not and they don't

998
00:39:43,849 --> 00:39:41,579
want to know and I think it's crazy very

999
00:39:47,390 --> 00:39:43,859
simple you know that's why we try to

1000
00:39:49,670 --> 00:39:47,400
keep this book so basic and but with the

1001
00:39:52,849 --> 00:39:49,680
believer I recently had a comment from

1002
00:39:55,250 --> 00:39:52,859
somebody I I work with at a college in

1003
00:39:57,410 --> 00:39:55,260
New York City uh she said she read the

1004
00:40:00,109 --> 00:39:57,420
book I said oh that's great and she says

1005
00:40:01,130 --> 00:40:00,119
don't believe a word of it

1006
00:40:04,250 --> 00:40:01,140
ouch

1007
00:40:05,990 --> 00:40:04,260
it anyway

1008
00:40:07,849 --> 00:40:06,000
um she didn't you know she didn't think

1009
00:40:10,609 --> 00:40:07,859
I was lying in the book but she just

1010
00:40:13,550 --> 00:40:10,619
didn't buy into the whole alien you know

1011
00:40:16,430 --> 00:40:13,560
phenomenon which is a difficult cell

1012
00:40:18,470 --> 00:40:16,440
because there's no proof as as we know

1013
00:40:20,690 --> 00:40:18,480
it's like you know so much of the

1014
00:40:24,890 --> 00:40:20,700
phenomenon

1015
00:40:28,190 --> 00:40:24,900
um uh it's just uh anecdotal

1016
00:40:30,589 --> 00:40:28,200
um so I get that a lot and we probably

1017
00:40:33,050 --> 00:40:30,599
will get that with this you know

1018
00:40:34,970 --> 00:40:33,060
um but it's okay we're grown-ups we can

1019
00:40:37,069 --> 00:40:34,980
deal with it and we'll discuss it I'm

1020
00:40:39,470 --> 00:40:37,079
just glad first of all we're happy that

1021
00:40:42,290 --> 00:40:39,480
people are picking up this book and and

1022
00:40:44,150 --> 00:40:42,300
the believer and reading it and and

1023
00:40:46,910 --> 00:40:44,160
grappling with the issues which are very

1024
00:40:48,530 --> 00:40:46,920
difficult yeah so that's the first step

1025
00:40:51,050 --> 00:40:48,540
and then we'll deal with you know their

1026
00:40:52,550 --> 00:40:51,060
reactions and get to that point of

1027
00:40:54,710 --> 00:40:52,560
reactions I wanted to ask you Deborah

1028
00:40:56,750 --> 00:40:54,720
how did you feel when Ralph was writing

1029
00:40:59,569 --> 00:40:56,760
that article in 2017 because that

1030
00:41:01,609 --> 00:40:59,579
changed the landscape of this topic did

1031
00:41:04,250 --> 00:41:01,619
you think like here's my award-winning

1032
00:41:05,870 --> 00:41:04,260
husband is this a career Ender or were

1033
00:41:08,510 --> 00:41:05,880
you excited that he's going to be the

1034
00:41:10,150 --> 00:41:08,520
first guy to actually bring this out on

1035
00:41:13,430 --> 00:41:10,160
a huge platform like the New York Times

1036
00:41:15,829 --> 00:41:13,440
well I was excited and you know it's a

1037
00:41:18,890 --> 00:41:15,839
topic that he's obviously been very

1038
00:41:20,690 --> 00:41:18,900
intimately involved in for years now and

1039
00:41:22,609 --> 00:41:20,700
I was glad it was was finally getting

1040
00:41:25,550 --> 00:41:22,619
the public airing that I thought it

1041
00:41:28,430 --> 00:41:25,560
deserved so that was very exciting but

1042
00:41:30,710 --> 00:41:28,440
uh you know hopefully there'll be more

1043
00:41:33,109 --> 00:41:30,720
and more coming out and more newspaper

1044
00:41:34,970 --> 00:41:33,119
stories so you know it's a they're

1045
00:41:38,630 --> 00:41:34,980
always a tough sell those articles they

1046
00:41:40,430 --> 00:41:38,640
really are but here at concrete uh you

1047
00:41:43,069 --> 00:41:40,440
know information to go with you know and

1048
00:41:45,829 --> 00:41:43,079
I gotta say that when Leslie Kane and I

1049
00:41:48,829 --> 00:41:45,839
and Helene Cooper of the times came out

1050
00:41:50,930 --> 00:41:48,839
with a story in December 2017 we really

1051
00:41:53,390 --> 00:41:50,940
didn't know what the reaction would be

1052
00:41:57,109 --> 00:41:53,400
you know I mean we we you know came

1053
00:41:59,390 --> 00:41:57,119
forward with this uh news with

1054
00:42:02,390 --> 00:41:59,400
groundbreaking news that the Pentagon

1055
00:42:04,730 --> 00:42:02,400
had a secret uh unit that was you know

1056
00:42:08,690 --> 00:42:04,740
studying UFOs and we came out with the

1057
00:42:11,510 --> 00:42:08,700
videos of some of these objects which

1058
00:42:15,349 --> 00:42:11,520
was you know really the best proof so

1059
00:42:17,150 --> 00:42:15,359
far that they actually existed but and

1060
00:42:19,069 --> 00:42:17,160
the times put it on the front page on a

1061
00:42:20,510 --> 00:42:19,079
Sunday we were thrilled with that but we

1062
00:42:23,150 --> 00:42:20,520
really didn't know what the reaction

1063
00:42:24,890 --> 00:42:23,160
would be now in retrospect you know five

1064
00:42:28,130 --> 00:42:24,900
years later people are saying oh it

1065
00:42:30,349 --> 00:42:28,140
changed the you know Paradigm and made

1066
00:42:33,109 --> 00:42:30,359
it safe for mainstream media to discuss

1067
00:42:35,450 --> 00:42:33,119
UFOs you know so that's very comforting

1068
00:42:38,810 --> 00:42:35,460
to to hear that and to think that maybe

1069
00:42:40,670 --> 00:42:38,820
you know we had a role in in changing

1070
00:42:43,730 --> 00:42:40,680
um you know the mindset but we didn't

1071
00:42:45,589 --> 00:42:43,740
really know what to expect uh like so

1072
00:42:47,450 --> 00:42:45,599
often and you know my long career in

1073
00:42:48,770 --> 00:42:47,460
journalism you just don't know how an

1074
00:42:50,569 --> 00:42:48,780
article is going to hit

1075
00:42:52,190 --> 00:42:50,579
you know what you know and I don't mean

1076
00:42:54,290 --> 00:42:52,200
to take this away from the metoo

1077
00:42:56,390 --> 00:42:54,300
movement at all it was it's it was

1078
00:42:59,750 --> 00:42:56,400
important at the time but it was kind of

1079
00:43:02,390 --> 00:42:59,760
like a metoo for UFOs and what it did is

1080
00:43:04,609 --> 00:43:02,400
that it uh you know once they Vindicated

1081
00:43:07,430 --> 00:43:04,619
but for a lot of people we even asked

1082
00:43:08,930 --> 00:43:07,440
George uh Knapp how he felt when the

1083
00:43:11,450 --> 00:43:08,940
article came out and we said did you

1084
00:43:13,010 --> 00:43:11,460
feel Vindicated did you feel that you

1085
00:43:14,630 --> 00:43:13,020
know Justice was being served for all

1086
00:43:15,950 --> 00:43:14,640
these years of servitude and saying this

1087
00:43:18,530 --> 00:43:15,960
stuff is happening

1088
00:43:20,990 --> 00:43:18,540
and it kind of did you know like it

1089
00:43:23,329 --> 00:43:21,000
affected people it affected okay look

1090
00:43:24,950 --> 00:43:23,339
for instance the article came out I

1091
00:43:26,630 --> 00:43:24,960
freaked out when I saw it on I think it

1092
00:43:29,150 --> 00:43:26,640
was on MSN or something like that at

1093
00:43:31,550 --> 00:43:29,160
work and of course I was a UFO guy so I

1094
00:43:33,230 --> 00:43:31,560
shared it to everybody at work I see see

1095
00:43:36,710 --> 00:43:33,240
what I was talking about right I'm not

1096
00:43:38,809 --> 00:43:36,720
crazy and it made me think about wanting

1097
00:43:41,690 --> 00:43:38,819
to be more active I joined mufon after

1098
00:43:44,150 --> 00:43:41,700
mufon uh we started the podcast the

1099
00:43:46,550 --> 00:43:44,160
podcast has been what three years now

1100
00:43:49,430 --> 00:43:46,560
Louie like yeah two and a half yeah so

1101
00:43:51,290 --> 00:43:49,440
that article had a direct effect on how

1102
00:43:53,089 --> 00:43:51,300
you guys are here right now talking with

1103
00:43:57,290 --> 00:43:53,099
us is because that article kicked it off

1104
00:43:59,630 --> 00:43:57,300
kicked it off right so a lot depends on

1105
00:44:02,150 --> 00:43:59,640
timing and some of a lot of the timing

1106
00:44:04,550 --> 00:44:02,160
is out of your hands just the way things

1107
00:44:05,870 --> 00:44:04,560
hit you know that's you know to go back

1108
00:44:08,690 --> 00:44:05,880
to the mystery that's sort of the

1109
00:44:11,030 --> 00:44:08,700
mystery of the universe why some things

1110
00:44:14,030 --> 00:44:11,040
will suddenly find an audience at one

1111
00:44:15,950 --> 00:44:14,040
time and they won't another time it just

1112
00:44:19,370 --> 00:44:15,960
hit at the right

1113
00:44:22,250 --> 00:44:19,910
um

1114
00:44:26,750 --> 00:44:22,260
you know the old journalism saying Nevis

1115
00:44:29,450 --> 00:44:26,760
grew up on a slow news day well

1116
00:44:32,690 --> 00:44:29,460
um you know we we happen to fall to a

1117
00:44:34,490 --> 00:44:32,700
time when uh I guess there was you know

1118
00:44:35,870 --> 00:44:34,500
not too many other dramatic things going

1119
00:44:38,809 --> 00:44:35,880
on in the world that would take

1120
00:44:41,329 --> 00:44:38,819
attention away and it just hit at the at

1121
00:44:45,170 --> 00:44:41,339
a time when it's kind of captured

1122
00:44:47,450 --> 00:44:45,180
attention and it is kind of mysterious

1123
00:44:49,550 --> 00:44:47,460
um so we're grateful for that and I

1124
00:44:52,670 --> 00:44:49,560
don't begin to understand it

1125
00:44:55,130 --> 00:44:52,680
um all the factors that go into that but

1126
00:44:57,230 --> 00:44:55,140
um I think the world was ready uh

1127
00:44:59,510 --> 00:44:57,240
certainly American public and the rest

1128
00:45:01,309 --> 00:44:59,520
of the world was ready uh to hear

1129
00:45:03,050 --> 00:45:01,319
something like this

1130
00:45:04,790 --> 00:45:03,060
um and it had been building a long time

1131
00:45:07,130 --> 00:45:04,800
I'm not saying you know we were the very

1132
00:45:10,609 --> 00:45:07,140
first to come out with this information

1133
00:45:13,010 --> 00:45:10,619
it had been built drip drip drabbing out

1134
00:45:15,349 --> 00:45:13,020
over the years

1135
00:45:18,230 --> 00:45:15,359
um this happened to you know sum up a

1136
00:45:20,510 --> 00:45:18,240
lot of the trends that were going on so

1137
00:45:23,089 --> 00:45:20,520
it's kind of mysterious we're very happy

1138
00:45:25,849 --> 00:45:23,099
to have had this role because I think it

1139
00:45:27,230 --> 00:45:25,859
did change a lot of the mindset yeah and

1140
00:45:29,030 --> 00:45:27,240
as a result of that we're now having

1141
00:45:30,530 --> 00:45:29,040
government hearings like publicly

1142
00:45:32,270 --> 00:45:30,540
broadcast that you can tune in and

1143
00:45:34,069 --> 00:45:32,280
listen to them go back and forth over it

1144
00:45:35,809 --> 00:45:34,079
and there's always lots of talk whenever

1145
00:45:37,550 --> 00:45:35,819
we have one of these usually more

1146
00:45:39,589 --> 00:45:37,560
negative than positive if you're an

1147
00:45:40,970 --> 00:45:39,599
Enthusiast world but I wanted to get

1148
00:45:42,650 --> 00:45:40,980
your thoughts on the recent Arrow

1149
00:45:45,109 --> 00:45:42,660
hearings you know when they're saying

1150
00:45:47,450 --> 00:45:45,119
things like there's nothing that we have

1151
00:45:49,730 --> 00:45:47,460
that really looks like it defies the

1152
00:45:51,650 --> 00:45:49,740
general laws of physics and yet you have

1153
00:45:53,750 --> 00:45:51,660
you know you read the reports from your

1154
00:45:55,970 --> 00:45:53,760
article what those Pilots are saying

1155
00:45:58,130 --> 00:45:55,980
directly contradicts what arrow is now

1156
00:45:59,809 --> 00:45:58,140
telling us yeah for me anyway a little

1157
00:46:02,390 --> 00:45:59,819
disappointing that this resolution

1158
00:46:04,849 --> 00:46:02,400
office the buck doesn't seem to stop

1159
00:46:06,410 --> 00:46:04,859
there it seems to be you know put it in

1160
00:46:08,809 --> 00:46:06,420
somebody else's corner and let them look

1161
00:46:10,670 --> 00:46:08,819
at it in fact Kirkpatrick even said and

1162
00:46:13,670 --> 00:46:10,680
I liked him prior to this meeting but he

1163
00:46:17,150 --> 00:46:13,680
even said it is my goal to turn UAP into

1164
00:46:18,530 --> 00:46:17,160
SCP someone else's problem so I have my

1165
00:46:19,790 --> 00:46:18,540
own thoughts on it we did a show about

1166
00:46:21,829 --> 00:46:19,800
it but I want to get your thought

1167
00:46:25,550 --> 00:46:21,839
thoughts on the recent era yeah no I'm

1168
00:46:27,349 --> 00:46:25,560
I'm equally disappointed we know we know

1169
00:46:29,150 --> 00:46:27,359
that the government has a lot of

1170
00:46:30,770 --> 00:46:29,160
information that they're not sharing now

1171
00:46:34,130 --> 00:46:30,780
some of that is for national security

1172
00:46:36,230 --> 00:46:34,140
reasons it's complicated issues at stake

1173
00:46:38,990 --> 00:46:36,240
we don't want our adversaries on Earth

1174
00:46:41,750 --> 00:46:39,000
to know you know the some of the

1175
00:46:43,550 --> 00:46:41,760
information we've compiled but uh in the

1176
00:46:46,130 --> 00:46:43,560
end a lot of this information really

1177
00:46:47,930 --> 00:46:46,140
deserves to be shared with Humanity in

1178
00:46:50,390 --> 00:46:47,940
general because it affects you know the

1179
00:46:53,750 --> 00:46:50,400
future of humanity and issues that go

1180
00:46:57,349 --> 00:46:53,760
beyond National Security to uh you know

1181
00:47:00,530 --> 00:46:57,359
the what's going on in the cosmos and

1182
00:47:03,370 --> 00:47:00,540
other intelligence Etc so I share your

1183
00:47:06,410 --> 00:47:03,380
disappointment with the hearings we know

1184
00:47:08,750 --> 00:47:06,420
some of it you know you have to be pay

1185
00:47:10,910 --> 00:47:08,760
attention to the literalness of it there

1186
00:47:12,710 --> 00:47:10,920
are people who who appear there

1187
00:47:14,690 --> 00:47:12,720
government officials and they're being

1188
00:47:18,050 --> 00:47:14,700
very very literal when they say things

1189
00:47:21,050 --> 00:47:18,060
like well I myself do not have evidence

1190
00:47:23,750 --> 00:47:21,060
of extraterrestrial real contact well

1191
00:47:26,690 --> 00:47:23,760
that may very well be true that person

1192
00:47:28,490 --> 00:47:26,700
himself or herself doesn't have that

1193
00:47:30,410 --> 00:47:28,500
evidence that doesn't mean the

1194
00:47:33,109 --> 00:47:30,420
government doesn't have it or know of it

1195
00:47:34,250 --> 00:47:33,119
so they're being very very cautious and

1196
00:47:35,829 --> 00:47:34,260
careful

1197
00:47:38,510 --> 00:47:35,839
um but we know

1198
00:47:41,390 --> 00:47:38,520
uh we at the New York Times and other

1199
00:47:43,790 --> 00:47:41,400
people who study this know that there's

1200
00:47:46,250 --> 00:47:43,800
a lot of information that has not come

1201
00:47:48,890 --> 00:47:46,260
out it's classified

1202
00:47:50,569 --> 00:47:48,900
um and I think it it will some of it

1203
00:47:52,609 --> 00:47:50,579
will come out uh because we're

1204
00:47:54,230 --> 00:47:52,619
continuing to you know to scratch around

1205
00:47:56,630 --> 00:47:54,240
and Report

1206
00:47:58,609 --> 00:47:56,640
it was the arrogance of the comment that

1207
00:48:01,430 --> 00:47:58,619
Louis just pointed to when the guy said

1208
00:48:04,130 --> 00:48:01,440
make it somebody else's problem like If

1209
00:48:06,770 --> 00:48:04,140
you hired me to do a job let's say an

1210
00:48:08,150 --> 00:48:06,780
editor of your book let's say and you

1211
00:48:10,490 --> 00:48:08,160
asked me for an update how are things

1212
00:48:12,130 --> 00:48:10,500
going on your book well I'd like to make

1213
00:48:14,630 --> 00:48:12,140
it somebody else's problem

1214
00:48:17,510 --> 00:48:14,640
right you're paying me for this right

1215
00:48:20,089 --> 00:48:17,520
and that's that's exactly it it pissed

1216
00:48:22,130 --> 00:48:20,099
me off to hear that like how arrogant

1217
00:48:24,349 --> 00:48:22,140
are you like a year in year and a half

1218
00:48:26,089 --> 00:48:24,359
in at most to say I'd like to make it

1219
00:48:29,510 --> 00:48:26,099
somebody else's problem not only that

1220
00:48:32,210 --> 00:48:29,520
but he's even if 90 95 of what they get

1221
00:48:33,950 --> 00:48:32,220
is garbage or explainable that five

1222
00:48:35,930 --> 00:48:33,960
percent that they can't explain that

1223
00:48:38,089 --> 00:48:35,940
defies anything that we know logically

1224
00:48:40,849 --> 00:48:38,099
and they can't determine what it is is

1225
00:48:42,470 --> 00:48:40,859
still an unknown it's still a UAP it's

1226
00:48:44,870 --> 00:48:42,480
still part of their job and they should

1227
00:48:47,630 --> 00:48:44,880
focus on that five percent yet he's not

1228
00:48:50,030 --> 00:48:47,640
excited about it just dismisses it like

1229
00:48:52,370 --> 00:48:50,040
give it to mufon give the budget to move

1230
00:48:54,829 --> 00:48:52,380
on people that have been doing this for

1231
00:48:56,630 --> 00:48:54,839
a long time to actually care and want to

1232
00:48:58,550 --> 00:48:56,640
see progress in this field as opposed to

1233
00:49:00,470 --> 00:48:58,560
getting a new guy that knows nothing

1234
00:49:01,849 --> 00:49:00,480
about this every single time they start

1235
00:49:03,829 --> 00:49:01,859
a new project

1236
00:49:05,750 --> 00:49:03,839
you you start you find out what the

1237
00:49:08,150 --> 00:49:05,760
answers are well go ask the guys have

1238
00:49:10,670 --> 00:49:08,160
been investigating this for 40 plus

1239
00:49:12,770 --> 00:49:10,680
years like Jack valet why isn't he part

1240
00:49:14,510 --> 00:49:12,780
of the team like it blows my mind that

1241
00:49:16,670 --> 00:49:14,520
they don't do that behind the scenes

1242
00:49:18,050 --> 00:49:16,680
he's been very very helpful to you know

1243
00:49:20,690 --> 00:49:18,060
understanding what's going on and Lou

1244
00:49:22,370 --> 00:49:20,700
Elizondo has been terrific uh right and

1245
00:49:25,130 --> 00:49:22,380
talking about it I mean he's still under

1246
00:49:27,770 --> 00:49:25,140
constraints as an intelligence guy he

1247
00:49:29,750 --> 00:49:27,780
can't say everything he knows but

1248
00:49:32,230 --> 00:49:29,760
you know when you think where we've come

1249
00:49:35,510 --> 00:49:32,240
from how far we've come from a time when

1250
00:49:37,849 --> 00:49:35,520
military personnel were told not to

1251
00:49:39,890 --> 00:49:37,859
share any information they had you know

1252
00:49:41,329 --> 00:49:39,900
you didn't see that don't if you if you

1253
00:49:43,730 --> 00:49:41,339
report it you'll be referring to the

1254
00:49:46,670 --> 00:49:43,740
psychiatrist airline pilots were told

1255
00:49:49,250 --> 00:49:46,680
and you didn't see anything don't report

1256
00:49:52,069 --> 00:49:49,260
it to me you know uh now that has

1257
00:49:53,690 --> 00:49:52,079
changed I mean officially

1258
00:49:56,270 --> 00:49:53,700
um I mean there was a whistleblower a

1259
00:49:57,710 --> 00:49:56,280
statute now encouraging people to come

1260
00:50:00,410 --> 00:49:57,720
forward

1261
00:50:03,530 --> 00:50:00,420
um to report their experiences to a

1262
00:50:06,349 --> 00:50:03,540
proper uh Congressional authorities

1263
00:50:08,270 --> 00:50:06,359
um so uh you know that's what I say

1264
00:50:10,849 --> 00:50:08,280
we've come a long way it's sometimes

1265
00:50:13,430 --> 00:50:10,859
hard to to see because we're so eager

1266
00:50:15,589 --> 00:50:13,440
for the next step but when you look back

1267
00:50:18,589 --> 00:50:15,599
and and see how the the government used

1268
00:50:21,589 --> 00:50:18,599
to Tamp this down and to completely deny

1269
00:50:22,730 --> 00:50:21,599
what was going on I think we've made a

1270
00:50:24,290 --> 00:50:22,740
lot of progress

1271
00:50:25,970 --> 00:50:24,300
do you uh have you heard of anything

1272
00:50:28,010 --> 00:50:25,980
coming down the pipeline any little

1273
00:50:29,089 --> 00:50:28,020
insiders Snippets that you can talk

1274
00:50:34,190 --> 00:50:29,099
about

1275
00:50:36,349 --> 00:50:34,200
answer it's classified yeah there's

1276
00:50:38,569 --> 00:50:36,359
there's stuff going on you know and

1277
00:50:40,370 --> 00:50:38,579
there's a lot of good reporters you know

1278
00:50:42,230 --> 00:50:40,380
working on it

1279
00:50:44,870 --> 00:50:42,240
um so

1280
00:50:47,809 --> 00:50:44,880
um uh I I think we'll see you know when

1281
00:50:50,210 --> 00:50:47,819
you as I say it's very recently that

1282
00:50:52,010 --> 00:50:50,220
these uh that this information has come

1283
00:50:53,930 --> 00:50:52,020
out I mean our story came out in the New

1284
00:50:55,670 --> 00:50:53,940
York Times five years ago since then

1285
00:50:57,770 --> 00:50:55,680
other stories come out we had a story in

1286
00:50:59,990 --> 00:50:57,780
the New York Times about near misses

1287
00:51:01,609 --> 00:51:00,000
with some of these objects we had a

1288
00:51:04,069 --> 00:51:01,619
story about

1289
00:51:06,230 --> 00:51:04,079
um Congressional uh committees being

1290
00:51:09,890 --> 00:51:06,240
briefed on possible

1291
00:51:12,710 --> 00:51:09,900
um uh you know uh materials from from

1292
00:51:15,290 --> 00:51:12,720
crashed UFOs we we were very careful in

1293
00:51:17,870 --> 00:51:15,300
that story and not to get ahead of our

1294
00:51:19,309 --> 00:51:17,880
our information that we could confirm

1295
00:51:22,309 --> 00:51:19,319
but

1296
00:51:24,829 --> 00:51:22,319
um so you know there's really some

1297
00:51:26,930 --> 00:51:24,839
interesting stuff out there that a lot

1298
00:51:29,990 --> 00:51:26,940
of people are working on so

1299
00:51:32,150 --> 00:51:30,000
um I I think it'll come out

1300
00:51:34,790 --> 00:51:32,160
it's good again you guys are putting out

1301
00:51:36,410 --> 00:51:34,800
content that is you know the consumer

1302
00:51:40,010 --> 00:51:36,420
can

1303
00:51:42,170 --> 00:51:40,020
have a wider opening or or view into

1304
00:51:43,609 --> 00:51:42,180
what this phenomenon is about now I'm

1305
00:51:45,230 --> 00:51:43,619
just going to throw it out there you

1306
00:51:47,150 --> 00:51:45,240
were mentioning about stories you could

1307
00:51:49,670 --> 00:51:47,160
come up with a series of books based on

1308
00:51:51,710 --> 00:51:49,680
different individual cases maybe just

1309
00:51:53,809 --> 00:51:51,720
you know children's book on Roswell a

1310
00:51:56,150 --> 00:51:53,819
children's book on Eddie and Barney hell

1311
00:51:57,349 --> 00:51:56,160
which you know quite a bit about so you

1312
00:51:59,089 --> 00:51:57,359
know that'd be that'd be cool like the

1313
00:52:01,010 --> 00:51:59,099
books I would collect them for sure just

1314
00:52:03,410 --> 00:52:01,020
as a some of them would be horror though

1315
00:52:05,710 --> 00:52:03,420
because they don't end so well we'll

1316
00:52:08,450 --> 00:52:05,720
talk to them yeah yeah yeah yeah

1317
00:52:11,690 --> 00:52:08,460
don't do a fire in the sky version of

1318
00:52:12,849 --> 00:52:11,700
Travis Walton's story that traumatized

1319
00:52:16,130 --> 00:52:12,859
me as a kid

1320
00:52:18,470 --> 00:52:16,140
yeah everyone but we're gonna go on

1321
00:52:20,870 --> 00:52:18,480
Whitley's show tomorrow actually nice

1322
00:52:23,030 --> 00:52:20,880
he's on he's on our Network actually we

1323
00:52:25,130 --> 00:52:23,040
belong to the unex network his show is

1324
00:52:26,690 --> 00:52:25,140
broadcast as well as ours and uh we're

1325
00:52:29,089 --> 00:52:26,700
also in chats to have him come join us

1326
00:52:32,030 --> 00:52:29,099
in the future too so oh yeah he's great

1327
00:52:33,589 --> 00:52:32,040
yeah yeah very well spoken yeah he

1328
00:52:37,849 --> 00:52:33,599
really is and I mean talk about

1329
00:52:41,990 --> 00:52:37,859
Mysteries uh it's just the phenomenal

1330
00:52:44,030 --> 00:52:42,000
stuff and uh you know yeah the the more

1331
00:52:46,549 --> 00:52:44,040
you delve into the subject the more you

1332
00:52:48,470 --> 00:52:46,559
realize how many layers and how many

1333
00:52:49,970 --> 00:52:48,480
aspects of life it actually dominates

1334
00:52:52,490 --> 00:52:49,980
Not only would it dominate the

1335
00:52:55,430 --> 00:52:52,500
individual at home but it would impact

1336
00:52:57,770 --> 00:52:55,440
political decisions going forward Global

1337
00:52:59,450 --> 00:52:57,780
uh situations with you know with

1338
00:53:01,250 --> 00:52:59,460
governments having to talk about what do

1339
00:53:02,630 --> 00:53:01,260
we do with this subject or now that

1340
00:53:06,109 --> 00:53:02,640
we're open about these visitations

1341
00:53:08,690 --> 00:53:06,119
whatever they are uh it seems like we're

1342
00:53:10,069 --> 00:53:08,700
all individualistic I'm having a hard

1343
00:53:12,250 --> 00:53:10,079
time with my words today guys my French

1344
00:53:14,569 --> 00:53:12,260
Canadians coming up uh individ

1345
00:53:16,069 --> 00:53:14,579
individualistically as a country is

1346
00:53:18,170 --> 00:53:16,079
trying to solve these problems as

1347
00:53:20,210 --> 00:53:18,180
opposed to working together as a group

1348
00:53:22,010 --> 00:53:20,220
and saying you know what we're also

1349
00:53:24,170 --> 00:53:22,020
having the same problem uh you know

1350
00:53:25,970 --> 00:53:24,180
we're getting the same amount of action

1351
00:53:28,370 --> 00:53:25,980
as you guys are like obviously the

1352
00:53:30,109 --> 00:53:28,380
Zimbabwe case that you guys covered uh

1353
00:53:32,990 --> 00:53:30,119
you know this is happening globally

1354
00:53:34,790 --> 00:53:33,000
every day and it's not just in the

1355
00:53:36,049 --> 00:53:34,800
United States although all the stories

1356
00:53:39,589 --> 00:53:36,059
seem to come out from the United States

1357
00:53:42,650 --> 00:53:39,599
but this stuff happens all the time uh

1358
00:53:44,089 --> 00:53:42,660
just quickly before we let you guys go I

1359
00:53:45,530 --> 00:53:44,099
would like to hear from each of you what

1360
00:53:48,230 --> 00:53:45,540
are your thoughts on that like what were

1361
00:53:50,870 --> 00:53:48,240
the implications of Us coming to grips

1362
00:53:53,049 --> 00:53:50,880
with this would this unify us or would

1363
00:53:56,030 --> 00:53:53,059
it give us at least more scientifically

1364
00:53:57,770 --> 00:53:56,040
more of a boost to try to discover more

1365
00:53:59,870 --> 00:53:57,780
about this and to expand our science and

1366
00:54:01,490 --> 00:53:59,880
knowledge The Way We Know It

1367
00:54:04,010 --> 00:54:01,500
wow that's such a hard question

1368
00:54:07,010 --> 00:54:04,020
obviously we would love to see countries

1369
00:54:09,829 --> 00:54:07,020
of the world sharing information I mean

1370
00:54:13,670 --> 00:54:09,839
on every topic and every you know from

1371
00:54:15,770 --> 00:54:13,680
Health to uh politics to the environment

1372
00:54:18,109 --> 00:54:15,780
um it doesn't seem to work that way in

1373
00:54:21,410 --> 00:54:18,119
most cases but of course we'd all be

1374
00:54:23,990 --> 00:54:21,420
better off with shared information and

1375
00:54:27,109 --> 00:54:24,000
um you know Common Ground and

1376
00:54:29,870 --> 00:54:27,119
but you know it it's just so much to

1377
00:54:31,609 --> 00:54:29,880
ponder in terms of we don't know what

1378
00:54:34,190 --> 00:54:31,619
necessarily what other countries are

1379
00:54:37,690 --> 00:54:34,200
doing or what they've found and what

1380
00:54:41,750 --> 00:54:37,700
they're hiding and you know yeah

1381
00:54:43,010 --> 00:54:41,760
well actually you know we um one of the

1382
00:54:44,930 --> 00:54:43,020
assumptions

1383
00:54:46,370 --> 00:54:44,940
um especially during World War II was

1384
00:54:47,150 --> 00:54:46,380
that the

1385
00:54:49,609 --> 00:54:47,160
um

1386
00:54:53,210 --> 00:54:49,619
of the Foo Fighters which is what you

1387
00:54:54,890 --> 00:54:53,220
know our Pilots saw in the sky balls of

1388
00:54:58,010 --> 00:54:54,900
lightest so

1389
00:54:59,569 --> 00:54:58,020
um we assumed that they were our Pilots

1390
00:55:01,970 --> 00:54:59,579
assumed they were enemy you know

1391
00:55:05,089 --> 00:55:01,980
phenomena enemy aircraft and the enemy

1392
00:55:06,170 --> 00:55:05,099
they thought that was us so

1393
00:55:11,030 --> 00:55:06,180
um

1394
00:55:13,910 --> 00:55:11,040
this day

1395
00:55:16,730 --> 00:55:13,920
um we know that the Soviet Union the the

1396
00:55:19,130 --> 00:55:16,740
Chinese uh not the Soviet the Russians

1397
00:55:21,950 --> 00:55:19,140
now it was the Soviet Union

1398
00:55:24,230 --> 00:55:21,960
um they are as puzzled by things that

1399
00:55:26,569 --> 00:55:24,240
they have discovered as we are and

1400
00:55:28,730 --> 00:55:26,579
they're doing their own research surely

1401
00:55:31,549 --> 00:55:28,740
no doubt about it

1402
00:55:33,290 --> 00:55:31,559
um so but we're not sharing really that

1403
00:55:35,270 --> 00:55:33,300
information with each other in Europe

1404
00:55:37,069 --> 00:55:35,280
they're doing more sharing I mean the

1405
00:55:39,290 --> 00:55:37,079
French and the belgians have done some

1406
00:55:41,690 --> 00:55:39,300
really interesting research

1407
00:55:44,089 --> 00:55:41,700
um and we are sharing information with

1408
00:55:46,309 --> 00:55:44,099
our allies the Australians and the Brits

1409
00:55:49,849 --> 00:55:46,319
and and others

1410
00:55:52,549 --> 00:55:49,859
um but a universal approach to this

1411
00:55:55,430 --> 00:55:52,559
problem is way off in the future as far

1412
00:55:58,370 --> 00:55:55,440
as I can tell even though we all every

1413
00:56:01,190 --> 00:55:58,380
country has has identified this as an

1414
00:56:04,309 --> 00:56:01,200
issue for sure so

1415
00:56:06,049 --> 00:56:04,319
um it is fascinating and if we go if we

1416
00:56:07,670 --> 00:56:06,059
only could get together on it I think it

1417
00:56:10,309 --> 00:56:07,680
would really advance but that's kind of

1418
00:56:12,349 --> 00:56:10,319
utopian The only positive and Abby Loeb

1419
00:56:13,910 --> 00:56:12,359
told us this is that science doesn't

1420
00:56:15,950 --> 00:56:13,920
really know those boundaries he said

1421
00:56:18,230 --> 00:56:15,960
even now the US and Russia still

1422
00:56:19,609 --> 00:56:18,240
collaborate on scientific things they're

1423
00:56:21,890 --> 00:56:19,619
you know the scientists are open-minded

1424
00:56:24,230 --> 00:56:21,900
enough to know that political bounds

1425
00:56:26,329 --> 00:56:24,240
change based on who's in power but

1426
00:56:28,609 --> 00:56:26,339
science needs to go on so if there is

1427
00:56:31,069 --> 00:56:28,619
any positive out of that you know we are

1428
00:56:34,370 --> 00:56:31,079
communicating as humans more than just

1429
00:56:36,589 --> 00:56:34,380
Americans Chinese Russians you know we

1430
00:56:38,809 --> 00:56:36,599
have a flag but we are all human so

1431
00:56:40,490 --> 00:56:38,819
absolutely and you know there are papers

1432
00:56:41,569 --> 00:56:40,500
being written in scientific journals

1433
00:56:48,530 --> 00:56:41,579
that

1434
00:56:50,750 --> 00:56:48,540
yeah nice before we let you guys go

1435
00:56:52,190 --> 00:56:50,760
where can people find your book and uh

1436
00:56:53,390 --> 00:56:52,200
where can they find you if they want to

1437
00:56:56,349 --> 00:56:53,400
learn more about your other projects

1438
00:56:57,790 --> 00:56:56,359
okay well we both have websites

1439
00:57:00,290 --> 00:56:57,800
deborahblumenthal.com

1440
00:57:01,549 --> 00:57:00,300
ralphbloomenthal.com and at the moment

1441
00:57:04,609 --> 00:57:01,559
I'm

1442
00:57:06,589 --> 00:57:04,619
the book is now an Amazon Barnes and

1443
00:57:08,690 --> 00:57:06,599
Noble and it's finding its way into

1444
00:57:10,849 --> 00:57:08,700
bookstores so

1445
00:57:13,910 --> 00:57:10,859
um you know the distribution is taking a

1446
00:57:16,370 --> 00:57:13,920
bit of a while but Amazon is shipping it

1447
00:57:18,770 --> 00:57:16,380
now and barnesandnoble.com is shipping

1448
00:57:21,589 --> 00:57:18,780
it as well and today you know online you

1449
00:57:24,170 --> 00:57:21,599
can find anything and everything so uh

1450
00:57:27,470 --> 00:57:24,180
just Google it and you'll see who has it

1451
00:57:30,109 --> 00:57:27,480
um so uh we're confident that it'll get

1452
00:57:32,870 --> 00:57:30,119
out there yeah it's available on hard

1453
00:57:35,569 --> 00:57:32,880
copy and Kindle version as well off of

1454
00:57:37,549 --> 00:57:35,579
Amazon we can find it on amazon.ca here

1455
00:57:39,170 --> 00:57:37,559
no problem so uh you know on the

1456
00:57:42,290 --> 00:57:39,180
Canadian side if you're purchasing it

1457
00:57:44,930 --> 00:57:42,300
from Canada you can get it for sure we

1458
00:57:46,609 --> 00:57:44,940
do appreciate your time guys we we you

1459
00:57:49,250 --> 00:57:46,619
know that uh living in New York your

1460
00:57:51,109 --> 00:57:49,260
time is very precious and uh we do

1461
00:57:52,730 --> 00:57:51,119
appreciate um everything that you guys

1462
00:57:55,370 --> 00:57:52,740
are doing the books that you're putting

1463
00:57:57,470 --> 00:57:55,380
out and the focus on the subject I mean

1464
00:57:59,390 --> 00:57:57,480
you're not going to get many thank yous

1465
00:58:01,549 --> 00:57:59,400
out there because people are a little

1466
00:58:03,950 --> 00:58:01,559
bit more tight lips but you know from

1467
00:58:06,109 --> 00:58:03,960
from us we do appreciate what you guys

1468
00:58:07,910 --> 00:58:06,119
are doing you're putting uh attention

1469
00:58:10,609 --> 00:58:07,920
and focus on the subject

1470
00:58:11,510 --> 00:58:10,619
more so than other people and it's good

1471
00:58:13,250 --> 00:58:11,520
to see

1472
00:58:15,049 --> 00:58:13,260
people like yourselves that are

1473
00:58:16,970 --> 00:58:15,059
award-winning journalists and authors

1474
00:58:19,490 --> 00:58:16,980
saying hey let's look into this

1475
00:58:21,230 --> 00:58:19,500
seriously you know it's uh it motivates

1476
00:58:22,790 --> 00:58:21,240
us to keep doing what we're doing and

1477
00:58:24,049 --> 00:58:22,800
like I said just seeing that you guys

1478
00:58:25,609 --> 00:58:24,059
are constantly putting more and more

1479
00:58:28,430 --> 00:58:25,619
books and Ralph you have to write more

1480
00:58:31,130 --> 00:58:28,440
books like you wrote about uh Ralph uh

1481
00:58:32,809 --> 00:58:31,140
not Ralph um John and uh you you have to

1482
00:58:35,150 --> 00:58:32,819
continue that that line of work it's

1483
00:58:37,490 --> 00:58:35,160
very good very good not many Heroes like

1484
00:58:38,930 --> 00:58:37,500
John Mack out there but I've been

1485
00:58:41,030 --> 00:58:38,940
looking for them you're looking for them

1486
00:58:42,950 --> 00:58:41,040
yeah exactly but you know with this

1487
00:58:46,549 --> 00:58:42,960
Young Generation that we're appealing to

1488
00:58:49,010 --> 00:58:46,559
in UFOs you know OHS

1489
00:58:51,049 --> 00:58:49,020
um maybe there are kids coming along now

1490
00:58:52,010 --> 00:58:51,059
who are going to be the John Max of the

1491
00:58:53,450 --> 00:58:52,020
future they're not going to be

1492
00:58:55,549 --> 00:58:53,460
intimidated they're going to ask the

1493
00:58:57,349 --> 00:58:55,559
tough questions it's surely going to be

1494
00:59:00,710 --> 00:58:57,359
a different world for the young people

1495
00:59:02,870 --> 00:59:00,720
growing up now yeah there were for you

1496
00:59:05,150 --> 00:59:02,880
know the older generation with all the

1497
00:59:07,010 --> 00:59:05,160
stigma that was attached to it so that's

1498
00:59:08,450 --> 00:59:07,020
encouraging I think that the young

1499
00:59:11,930 --> 00:59:08,460
people

1500
00:59:13,910 --> 00:59:11,940
um are not going to be as easily uh you

1501
00:59:15,230 --> 00:59:13,920
know put put off

1502
00:59:18,289 --> 00:59:15,240
um they're going to be asking tough

1503
00:59:20,630 --> 00:59:18,299
questions so and you mentioned Abby Loeb

1504
00:59:22,609 --> 00:59:20,640
I mean he's doing remarkable work

1505
00:59:23,870 --> 00:59:22,619
um and interesting that he's at Harvard

1506
00:59:26,210 --> 00:59:23,880
too

1507
00:59:27,950 --> 00:59:26,220
um in the in the footsteps of John Mack

1508
00:59:29,930 --> 00:59:27,960
although he doesn't share a lot of

1509
00:59:31,490 --> 00:59:29,940
John's uh

1510
00:59:32,870 --> 00:59:31,500
um John it was a different kind of

1511
00:59:34,430 --> 00:59:32,880
scientist let's say he was a

1512
00:59:36,890 --> 00:59:34,440
psychiatrist and obvious of

1513
00:59:39,410 --> 00:59:36,900
astrophysicist but anyway

1514
00:59:43,010 --> 00:59:39,420
um it is interesting that he's he's a

1515
00:59:45,470 --> 00:59:43,020
whole you know keeping the torch burning

1516
00:59:48,829 --> 00:59:45,480
um so let's see what maybe this book

1517
00:59:50,450 --> 00:59:48,839
will you know uh invite some kids to to

1518
00:59:52,730 --> 00:59:50,460
come forward when they grow up and

1519
00:59:55,549 --> 00:59:52,740
that'll be a great achievement

1520
00:59:57,770 --> 00:59:55,559
the book is called uh UFOs mysteries in

1521
00:59:59,690 --> 00:59:57,780
the sky thanks again Ralph and Deborah

1522
01:00:01,430 --> 00:59:59,700
lumenthal for your time for being our

1523
01:00:03,770 --> 01:00:01,440
guest we'd love to have you back anytime

1524
01:00:04,910 --> 01:00:03,780
uh we feel like you're family now so

1525
01:00:06,890 --> 01:00:04,920
thank you for everything that you're

1526
01:00:09,530 --> 01:00:06,900
doing for the community and uh thanks

1527
01:00:16,870 --> 01:00:09,540
again for coming on thanks appreciate it